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24p to 25p?
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I would take my master tape to a facility with a Teranex for conversion. I haven’t used the Nattress frame rate conversion but people like Walter who does use it says good things about it.
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[Dave LaRonde] “could you please describe the process used in Europe to broadcast a 24fps theatrical film on 25fps PAL? I’ve never understood how they compensate for one less frame per second without introducing an annoying pause in the motion.”
Most of the studios deliver the content converted with big iron, tools like Alchemist or Ukon that retime the video and the pitch sift and compensate the audio for the decreased time by processing the video and audio separately then remarry them together on the final output.
This level of quality is expensive – I have heard pricing as high as $1750 per hour of content -for someone needing 10 minutes of conversion to as low as $90 per hour to convert a library of content
Most TV production on the other hand lives with the 4% pitch shift, and the tools to this, the most common form of conversion are built into most all of the current batch of NLE’s
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows -
[Dave LaRonde] “Can you reveal how you got to the actual frame rate? I’ve always known it as 23.976.”
I did it with a calculator and then fine tuned it with trial and error. There was a guide track that was done by speeding up and pitch compensating on an HDCam machine. Naturally there were artefacts but it let me frame accurately mod match the beginning and end of the program.
I did write down the number for posterity and I will look for that number. Not being a savant, I can’t recalculate it in my head or remember it. I have trouble with my wedding anniversary so six decimal frame rate conversions just don’t stick.
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First of all, thanks for all your support. What I ended up doing was letting compressor do the conversion to 25fps, adding extra frames. Even though it looks jumpy from time to time..
I never had any luck with the speed-up process, I never understood how it could even be an option since I dont want to end up with a shorter video and a faster soundtrack. It feels like people who know’s the song would notice the difference.
Next time I’m shooting something that’s going to Europe I will make sure to convert BEFORE I edit.. this was a nightmare.
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Jayo –
The only people that will notice are the band, maybe. If you speed it up and pitch it back down, the video will be shorter by a matter of seconds, which if you did a blind taste test, most people would not notice. Then, if you had the music pitched back down, it’d be passable by even more people. The 24 to 25 speed change is the absolute cleanest way to convert as there’s no extra frames involved or made up. Serious external hardware can do this, but it’s not cheap. They way you have it now, you are repeating a frame every second. That’s a lot.
Jeremy
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Jeremy, You’re right.. it is a lot. The reason I gave up the speedup process was I don’t have the right tools to edit the audio pitch. I know a friend that can get it done, maybe it’s a good idea to try it, send it to the band, and let them decide.
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[Dave LaRonde] “X=23.9759999999999991 “
looks correct to me Dave.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows -
I had to do 24 -> 25 conversion couple of times. It is very easy if you have Adobe After Effects.
Just import your video, interpret footage as 25fps instead of 24fps, put it in a 25fps composition, resize if necessary and render. The length of rendered movie is your new video duration.
You can even change speed of your audio in soundtrack pro or pro tools in an 25fps timeline to the same duration and everything will be fine when you sync it back in fcp to your newly rendered 25fps video.
Actually, if you don’t need to change the size and aspect ratio of your movie, you could probably just change its frame rate in quicktime pro, that is just “administrative” process in which movie gets new length and playback speed, without introducing that annoying one frame stutter.
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GO back and read the thread
it was a music video and the audio was the most important part.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows -
I read the question. This is the first time I hear that some part of the program is more important that the other (video or the sound), both should be taken care with equal importance, if you ask me.
4% sped up audio done properly is much less of a problem than a one frame stutter each second as that is almost unwatchable.
In the end, if the music video is to finish on a DVD it may as well be 24fps. Most of the equipment in Europe will play 24fps DVD just fine.
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