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24p HD to 25i PAL SD – speed change & audio pitch shift
Hi.
Broadcast Masters – Full HD, ProRes 24p, going to DigiBeta PAL 25i.
From looking at earlier posts, looks like reconforming to 25fps in CinemaTools, re-importing on timeline will get the 4% speed up required keeping all frames looking good.
Question – should the timeline be 25p or 25i to playout to Digi? Does it make a difference if set to “No fields”
Then, these are music shows. So rasing the audio by half a semi-tone or so isn’t really desirable. Is the pitch correction something to be done in FCP or is that a joke? Is SoundTrackPro 2 ok, or is the best way to go Something like Cubase or Logic?
Any pointers hugely appreciated.
Ben
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6 Replies
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Hi Michael
Yes, thanks, I had seen that thread, but it didn’t answer my questions which were:
field dominance set-up on the timeline
and
that there is a definite need for a pro audio application for the pitch shifting, as I don’t have one in-house.
Seeing some a couple of posts elsewhere on how cruddy SoundTrackPro2 is for Pitch Shifting, I think that 2nd query has unfortunately been answered!
Ben
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24-25 is 3/4 of a semi tone. Very ugly
As an audio pro that also grades/ onlines in FCP, I would highly recommend using an audio professional with either MPEX3 or Pitch N Time. I haven’t heard any other software that does a length/pitch change properly. For a music based program, this to me is a no brainer.
PAL SD is interlaced so your progressive image will be displayed in an interlaced wrapper. PAL digi beta only records 50i. I suspect your output card (Kona or Decklink) will add interlace if you make a none sequence anyway. If in doubt, try a small sample in both sequence types.
As I have often stated, I would use external hardware to do the picture conversion.
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Michael
Yes, the audio is a tricky beast. Pro it is.
As for picture, I got the impression that using external systems which did some kind of pulldown would introduce ugly extra fields at various points going from 24 to 25fps, and that speeding up the footage so all the frames remained frames was the best approach. All you lost was the duration, it now being a slightly shorter programme. Which of course can be an issue if it’s cut for a specific broadcast slot with minimal plus or minus allowances.
But I am new to standards converting in this type of context…
Ben
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It is possible to output a 24 frame to HDCam and then run the HDCam @ 25, then through a Teranex to a digi beta. The digi then needs to be restriped with the 4% corrected audio. The HDCam does a lousy job of pitch correction although it does try. This workflow also means you have you HDCam distribution master done. It also means the rest is done at best quality in real time without hours of rendering and mucking around in FCP.
Also bear in mind that even though pitch correct, the tempo increases. this has been very ofputting in some cases with edit timing and pace and feel of a show. Yes it preserves frames without introducing horrible hybrids. So better for pics, but a compromise for sound. It really depends on what is the more important, which is a show by show judgement.
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HDCamSR to Digi will speed up the video by 4% and the audio as well. Pitch and tempo will change. You can correct the pitch in FCP with AUPitch. Its not that bad a filter and I think the algorithms come from Logic.
An alternative is to take the HD 24p ProRes, and convert it to SD 25fps in Compressor with Rate conversion set to best.
I come from an environment where films have songs and dances, so the 4% shift in tempo is absolutely not tolerated by our music directors. So we go with keeping the video at 24fps and cleaning it up with motion correction while keeping the audio speed intact. I’ve made many a telecast master this way.
May not be the solution for you, but you can try a small sample. Once with audio intact and motion corrected in Compressor. And one with 4% speedup and pitch corrected in FCP. And judge for yourself which is the better route.
Neil Sadwelkar
FCP Editor, Mumbai, India.
Completely PAL.
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