24p advanced and EDLS

[Aaron Neitz]

24p Advanced means, literally, the camera head captured 24 frames per second, but striped media onto tape at 30fps with the “advanced” pulldown pattern. So yeah, unless you told FCP to digitize and ditch those pulldown frames, you’re going to have 30fps the whole way.

[Capturedlive]

Yes, I know this, ok, I’ll be more specific. IN A 24P ADVANCED SEQUENCE, how does the sequence know what frames to drop? Are the flags all in the source media? If I link a 29.97 EDL to 24 (23.98) advanced media, what will happen? Is there a necessary flag in the EDL to deal with this, or is it all dependent on the mdeia. I exported an EDL from a 24P advanced sequence and it looked like a regular 29.97 EDL. At that point, I was a bit confused since if you play the sequence it is skipping every 5th frame. How does it know to do this? Anyone care to straighten me out? 🙂

Producer / Technical Supervisor
Captured Live Productions
http://www.caplive.com

[Aaron Neitz]

Oh, yeah. If you turn on Timecode Overlays, you should see your source footage displaying a 30fps style timecode – only it will skip frames every now and then. So that way your 24p sequence still has a relationship to the tape, so you *could* batch-digitize it at a later date.

[Gary Adcock]

[CapturedLive] “IN A 24P ADVANCED SEQUENCE, how does the sequence know what frames to drop?”

At the seq level it does not. 24pA is the cadence of the added frames that allow the content to play as NTSC and then be removed to allow for 24 clean frames. This cadence is 2:3:3:2 – which is why you see a “duplicate 5th frame”

To work at 24fps, you will need to remove the duplicate frames on capture, by using “remove advanced pulldown” from the tools menu or using Cinema Tools to remove the frames.

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA

[Capturedlive]

Ok, but just so I’m clear, is the information on the cadence order stored in the media or in the sequence? I assume it’s in the media. So I could take a 29.97 CMX EDL, relink it to media loaded in 24P Advanced mode, turn on the remove advanced pulldown option, and it will play properly, removing the correct 5th frame? I think this is what you are saying.. Thanks.

Producer / Technical Supervisor
Captured Live Productions
http://www.caplive.com

[Gary Adcock]

[CapturedLive] “I assume it’s in the media. So I could take a 29.97 CMX EDL, relink it to media loaded in 24P Advanced mode, turn on the remove advanced pulldown option, and it will play properly, removing the correct 5th frame? “

UH you’re not saying why your using a CMX edl — but I do not know of any linear editor that can see the 24pA cadence, not even all of the avid’s can see 24pA.

if your talking about editing in FCP — you will need to go thru a conversion of the 29.97 edl to a 23.98 edl and import that footage during captured into your new 23.98 timeline-

Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA

[Capturedlive]

I actually create CMX-ish EDLs using a database program. The edit points come from a simple camera cut log I create at my multicamera shoots as I do my line cut. This system works perfectly in 29.97, but I’m wondering how best to do it with 23.98A. I guess where I’m getting confused is that if you export an EDL from FCP from a 23.98A and look at the timecodes, it’s all 29.97. So my question is, could you import a 29.97-based EDL and somehow relink it to 23.98A media and have it work, ideally without having to do a bunch of conversions? Thanks again…

Producer / Technical Supervisor
Captured Live Productions
http://www.caplive.com

[Bryce Whiteside]

This thread may be worth a read. Cinema Tools can make a 24fps EDL from a 30fps and a 30fps EDL from a 24fps EDL.
Re: Up against the wall with 24p and Final Cut by Kevin Hedin on Jan 25, 2004 at 3:32 am

Some more reading if you haven’t come across it before:
24p in Final Cut Pro HD and the DVX 100 By Graeme Nattress

I would try to become more familiar with Cinema Tools if you haven’t already.

HTH,
Bryce Whiteside

Don’t worry Mr. B. I have a cunning plan…

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