24 fps ProRes HD to PAL SD without blur

[Ben Knight]

You know, Nick, I’m trying the conform method now.
Conformed it to 25 in Cinema Tools.

I’m experimenting with pitch shifting the audio using Time Machine in Logic Studio. It sounds pretty decent to me, have you heard anything about Logic Studio regarding it’s pitch-shifting abilities?

As far as I can calculate, I need to pitch shift down by 67 cents, here’s how I got the number.

Assuming need a decrease of 4% pitch (1 / 25th).

A semitone (100 cents) apparently = 5.946309437%

so

So 4% / 5.946309437 * 100 = about 67 cents.

Does that sound right?

And I’m just trying to do the frame resize with compressor, starting with the conformed hd file…. using “Best” for Frame resize quality.
I got to admit, it still looks a tiny bit blurry, so I will keep trying different things.

Thanks, B

[Rafael Amador]

[Ben Knight] “File format: DV Stream”
What’s that?
Forget about “DV Stream”. With that you go nowhere.
Export to Prores.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Shane Ross]

[Rafael Amador] “[Ben Knight] “File format: DV Stream”
What’s that?”

The DV format that iMovie uses. Bottom of the SD barrel.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Nick Meyers]

Hi, Ben
i cant comment on the maths

what i often do is to lay some un-conformed bars & tone against conformed bars & tone.
i adjust the pitch until there is no beating.

the only time i used a frame-conversion approach was when i worked on a piece for Silverchair, a local (Australian) band with an international audience
we couldn’t really mess with the music, so had to mess with the pictures.

i live in a PAL territory, and all the features i’ve cut have been put to Tape / DVD sped up to 25fps

nick

[Rafael Amador]

[Shane Ross] “[Rafael Amador] “[Ben Knight] “File format: DV Stream”
What’s that?”

The DV format that iMovie uses. Bottom of the SD barrel.”
I know, Shane.
I just wanted to express my horror 🙂
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Ben Knight]

Thanks Nick,
Good to know that the Conform to 25 is considered industry standard.

And the digibeta I’m talking about is indeed intended for use Down Under. 🙂

• what software do you use for pitch shift? I’ll use Logic Studio Time & Pitch Machine at this stage I think, as mentioned, by changing pitch -70 cents or so… Actually I will also run a test of taking the original 24fps audio and reducing the duration to match the conformed movie, and see if the results differ.

• do you use Compressor for the downscaling from hd to sd?

🙂

[Nick Meyers]

Hi, Ben.

i dont do the audio work myself, the sound teams look after that, so i cant help you there.
MIchael Gissing who is on this board is an Audio Professional, and would know,
i know he has answered the question in the past, so do a search of the boards.
however if what you are doing sounds good to you, then…

as for down-conversion, i would definitely do this during the play-out to tape from an HD file.
the scaling in the cards is good,
and your tape house may even be running it though hardware like Terranex.

cheers,
nick

[Ben Knight]

Thanks Nick… I did indeed search the forums, though didn’t find much on the percentage of pitch correction. Some further calculations I did put the appropriate adjustment at -72 Cents, which I’ve read elsewhere is about right.

For the benefit of other readers, I’ll mention the only tool I have for pitch correction is Logic, and I’ve heard disparate reports about whether Logic 9 is appropriate for this or not.

So I think I’ll leave both video and audio conversions to the tape house. And I guess I’ll go with the speed up (pitch down) method.

It’s been good to learn more about all this though.

Cheers all

[Michael Gissing]

24 to 25fps is 4% which is about three quarters of a semi tone so -72 cents is about right,

Best software in my experience is iZotope RX2, MPEX3 and Pitch N Time. I don’t know how good Logic is on pitch but treat it like a polyphonic mix and make sure it keeps accurate phase of Left & Right channels.

[Ben Knight]

Thanks Michael. Just tried it in Logic.. brought the audio in, Pitch and Time Machine, -72cents Pitch and Harmonics…..
the bounced file drifted in Sync when brought in to FCP.
Don’t think I’ll stress out trying to get Logic to do it.
I’ll probably get it done by a tape house in LA… if i was still in Oz I’d probably call you guys. Is it within forum rules to ask which post house you and Nick work at?
Thanks for all the tips, all.