23.98 -> 29.97

[Graeme Nattress]

Check out my Standards Converter at http://www.nattress.com

It will either convert 29.97 to 23.98 for you, or add 3:2 pulldown to your 23.98fps material, or even convert 24pA to 24p normal for editing in a 29.97fps timeline.

However, for the most homogenous look between footage types, I’d convert the 29.97fps to 23.98fps and edit everything on a 23.98fps timeline.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP

[Gary Adcock]

cinema tools also does a fine job of telecine on 24p footage to convert it back to 29.97

gary adcock

Studio37
HD and Film Consultation

[Graeme Nattress]

I’ve never seen a “add 3:2 pulldown” option in Cinema Tools! Can you tell me where to find it as I’d never gone to all the bother of writing my own 3:2 pulldown adder if there was one already in the software. I can’t see any reference to addition of 3:2 pulldown in the manual, but that manual is woefully innacruate.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP

[David Massachi]

“However, for the most homogenous look between footage types, I’d convert the 29.97fps to 23.98fps and edit everything on a 23.98fps timeline”

What do you mean by “homogenous”? Just so all the clips have a 3:2 pulldown? Will it make the whole timeline have one pulldown cadence?

I’m interested in the 29.97 > 23.98 conversion. How exactly does this work with footage shot in 29.97 interlaced? Do you have any suggestions for the settings for this procedure?

I also have some archival footage that was shot on film and transferred to video. Should I just remove pulldown for those clips to get it back to 23.98? That seems like a pain in the toochus.

Any suggestions about specific settings within the plugin parameters would be appreciated. Thanks.

massachi

[David Massachi]

I haven’t found the 23.98 > 29.97 operation in CT, either. Only 29.97 > 23.98 or 29.97 > 24.

massachi

[Graeme Nattress]

If you’re editing on a 23.98fps timeline, which is the best way to edit 24pA footage, then none of the clips will have pulldown in them, as they will have had their pulldown removed. 29.97fps footage (60i) is video, and has no 3:2 pulldown, so you must do a 60i to 24p conversion to make it look like it was shot at 24p originally.

If you were to go the other way and add pulldown to your 24p footage and edit in a normal NTSC 29.97fp timeline you would get video look and film look all mixed together, and unless that is the intention, that some shots look like video and some like film, it will look like a mess and the different shots would have different ‘feels’ about them – ie not homogenous.

There a little demo move here – NTSC to 24p: https://www.nattress.com/standardsConversionMovie.htm
that show how it works, and if you want to see the results: https://www.nattress.com/filmEffectsMovies.htm and https://www.nattress.com/BirdBrains/birdBrainsMovie.htm were both converted from 60i to 24p with the converter.

Hope that helps,

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP

[Gary Adcock]

Thats what a conform does.

it retimes the clip so that it will play properly when inserted back into a 29.97 timeline. While this is NOT
the same as what Graeme’s filters will do — but it has been the standard for handling this type of content.
The Standards filter actually create the Telecine frames whereas conform “recreates” the timing.

conform (video) To change the frame rate of a video clip. For example, you can use the Cinema Tools Conform feature to change the frame rate of a PAL 25 fps video clip to film

[Graeme Nattress]

But conform is not useful in this scenario as it will speed up the 24p to make it run at 29.97 putting a massive pitch shift on the audio and making the action run fast! The correct way to convert 24p to 29.97 for using 24p in a 29.97 timeline is to add 3:2 pulldown which is a feature that Cinema Tools (or FCP for that matter) does not have. FCP will only add 3:2 pulldown on play out over firewire, which makes it quite useless for many workflows.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP

[David Massachi]

Graeme,

Thanks for your very helpful responses.

What kind of result do I get if I cut a 23.98 clip into a 29.97 timeline? I have to render it, but the speed doesn’t seem to change at all. Is it just adding 3:2 pulldown? If so, how is that different from what G Film Converter does? Is there a different algorithm applied? If I want just plain old 3:2 pulldown added to my 23.98 clips, can I just use FCP for that?

Also, when working in a 23.98 timeline, you said that FCP will add pulldown on output via firewire. But will it also add pulldown when not going to a DV deck/converter? I ask because I use an AJA Io sometimes.

massachi

PS: I’m working in NTSC DV, and sometimes NTSC Uncompressed 8-bit 4:2:2

[Graeme Nattress]

“What kind of result do I get if I cut a 23.98 clip into a 29.97 timeline?”

A poor one. You also get a discontinuity in feel as the 29.97 clips look like video, and if you just use FCP to convert the 23.98fps to 29.97fps, you’ll get a jumpy jerky effect on those clips too.

“I have to render it, but the speed doesn’t seem to change at all. Is it just adding 3:2 pulldown?”

No it isn’t. It adds in padding frames. Because it’s not field based, it’s not 3:2 pulldown and it’s not smooth. Try it and see for yourself. Set your canvas to 100%, view as square pixels turned off, and step through frame by frame.

“If so, how is that different from what G Film Converter does? Is there a different algorithm applied? If I want just plain old 3:2 pulldown added to my 23.98 clips, can I just use FCP for that?”

FCP doesn’t add 3:2 pulldown, but does a really poor job of the conversion of frame rates – hence the Standards Converter got written.

“Also, when working in a 23.98 timeline, you said that FCP will add pulldown on output via firewire. But will it also add pulldown when not going to a DV deck/converter? I ask because I use an AJA Io sometimes.”

Only DV over firewire, not IO over firewire. One of the reasons that the converter was written was for people wanting to send 24p back out over, say, digibeta, for which FCP didn’t provide and option.

Graeme

– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects for FCP