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2017
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[Shane Ross] “They are too busy making things smaller and adding cute emoji bars”
So you’ve used it then?
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~\”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.\”~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~\”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented\”~ -
ME? No. Colleague did. But had to get it into the repair program due to the GPU freaking out on him in Premiere…glitching. Which is fine, it’ll get repaired. And he’ll get adapters and a dock and eventually get it to a place where it’s ready to be used properly.
I swear, these are more designed for the business professional than media…that’s the first thought they have. Media secondary. That’s what I gather when I see that they value lightness and battery power over RAM, decent GPU and faster CPUs.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Shane Ross] ” Only thing keeping me on the OS is the need to encode to ProRes.”
+1
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin\’ attached to nothin\’
\”Deciding the spine is the process of editing\” F. Bieberkopf -
[Shane Ross] “[Shawn Miller] “Looking forward to a machine upgrade. ”
I wouldn’t look at Apple. They are too busy making things smaller and adding cute emoji bars. Making computers that can’t even connect to their own iPhones without an adapter. Haven’t updated the MacPro in over 3 years…and consider the iMac their “top of the line” desktop…and I’m sure they’ll keep pushing that.
Apple is losing a LOT of trust in me…a mac only user since 1990. Only thing keeping me on the OS is the need to encode to ProRes.”
I’m already a Windows user, but it seems like there are a lot folks who are expressing the same thoughts about Apple and the future of it’s desktop products.
Shawn
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[Shane Ross] “I swear, these are more designed for the business professional than media…that’s the first thought they have. Media secondary. That’s what I gather when I see that they value lightness and battery power over RAM, decent GPU and faster CPUs.”
Shane,
You’re missing what Charlie is saying. (I think, he’s better able to say than me, surely)
But I think you keep getting stuck in the mindset that the only way to leap higher and higher walls is to develop stronger and stronger legs. But there is another way. Keep the same muscles – but lose some weight.
The “weight” in this case is the rasters we all need to manipulate. The old view was that bigger and bigger rasters need more grunt to push around. But that’s the exact opposite of the trends towards proxy and similar reference file editing. Today, you can make decisions on lightweight video streams and then just swap the pointers to the heavyweight streams after the metadata manipulation work is done.
THAT is what Apple is valuing. So you get both the ability to cut what you need to cut in the way you need to cut it – PLUS you don’t have to lug around heavyweight gear or be tied endlessly to a wall outlet at your desk in order to comfortably get your work done.
What you’re hearing from the new professional editors enjoying X is that they don’t have to work like they’ve been working for the past 20 years – with the same assumptions in place that defined their jobs for so long. Is a fire burning GPU nice? Sure. And if you spend most of your time doing full raster color correction for mastering – or gaming where virtual kill or be kill depends on performance – go for it!
But that has little to do with EDITORIAL judgement. I’m pretty sure guys like Herb and I have been making editorial judgements on SD sources just fine for decades. And ANY modern proxy file is likely to run quality rings around THAT when it comes to producing a quality image to cut. (Precisely why Premiere Pro added an X-like proxy system after 4 years, no?)
So what’s the point of thinking you can’t drive effectively unless you’re always at the wheel of a big assed house mover thingy – when what you’re actually doing most days is deciding how to arrange the lumber and create the house, not MOVE it yet?
Just makes no sense.
Particularly when the smaller vehicle can actually DO all the house moving as well, it just takes a bit longer than a machine designed specifically for house moving?
FWIW.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Shane Ross] “Apple is losing a LOT of trust in me…a mac only user since 1990. Only thing keeping me on the OS is the need to encode to ProRes.”
We all blasted Microsoft for locking in users with proprietary technologies in the 1990s. How times have changed!
Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive | RenderBreak [blog] | Profile [LinkedIn] -
[Bill Davis] “But I think you keep getting stuck in the mindset that the only way to leap higher and higher walls is to develop stronger and stronger legs. But there is another way. Keep the same muscles – but lose some weight. “
Stronger GPU and processors are needed for many things, not just large video files. But also using Motion or AE or for noise reduction plugins, or other plugins. AT SOME POINT you need to work full res…so I guess at that time you move to a PC that can do all this? Or an iMac that costs 2-3 times as much, with less horsepower? AT SOME POINT you return to full resolution for finishing and output. And that still requires muscle to jump high walls…
[Bill Davis] ” But that’s the exact opposite of the trends towards proxy and similar reference file editing. “
Trends towards…funny, Avid has been doing this for decades, and now it’s a “trend” when Apple and Adobe start doing it. Yes, I cut offline codecs daily…I know this. But I’m also a finishing editor, and I need the muscle when finishing. Not talking about the laptop now for finishing…talking MacPro, which the old one…I mean latest one that’s 3 years old…has GPU that freak out in Premiere or Resolve at full res. And yes, they needed to be replaced, and even when they are, Resolve needs to be “throttled” in order to baby them.
So I’m talking about FINISH EDITING…when you do need the power to deal with full res files and noise reduction and mastering. The MacPro is old, the iMac is “OK” for this, but really underpowered for the cost, and the new laptops…forget it. You FCX cutters still need to finish, and you still need the muscle. Apple seems to only be aiming at the FCX crowd, and as a side note, when it comes to their hardware. Yes, you can cut Proxy in FCX…and then you can finish and you might not need all that processing power in FCX. Other apps do…and Apple doesn’t seem to care about those other apps. THEY USED TO…now? not so much. Evidence is there…
[Bill Davis] “(Precisely why Premiere Pro added an X-like proxy system after 4 years, no?) “
Last year. For one that is semi stable. They tried with PRELUDE, but that was just a mess.
[Bill Davis] “So what’s the point of thinking you can’t drive effectively unless you’re always at the wheel of a big assed house mover thingy – “
No. When I want to drive to work, I’ll use my small car. So…iPad in this case. But when I need to MOVE MY HOUSE, I will drive that big ass truck. And since I make a living moving big houses, I need that big truck all the time. Just because YOU don’t need to move big houses all the time doesn’t mean that NO ONE needs to.
[Bill Davis] “when what you’re actually doing most days is deciding how to arrange the lumber and create the house, not MOVE it yet? “
That’s fine for “offline” editing…but again, I’m talking FINISHING. Finishing is a big part of editing…and that needs the big truck.
[Bill Davis] “Particularly when the smaller vehicle can actually DO all the house moving as well, it just takes a bit longer than a machine designed specifically for house moving? “
So you are saying that we should be OK with using a smaller car to get the house to where it needs to go..it’ll just take longer? Some of us have deadlines to meet. Sorry, this is a very bad analogy. Yes, there are many who only need iMacs to cut, or less, as they are doing the creative cutting, offline quality. I do this…doing it right now. Cutting a reality show 14:1 compressed. On a VERY old Mac Pro..works great…which is why we are still using this Mac Pro. Not a lot of power is needed. But I also finish shows with Resolve…4K shows. And THAT requires power. Which is why I built a computer for that task. One comparable in processor to the latest iMac, but with a far superior GPU, slots to hold hard drives (I can get 5 in this beast)…slots for MORE GPU if I need, which I do. And this cost $1600…better than an iMac, under half the cost of the one I spec’d out. I render out a 50 min 4K sequence with lots of noise reduction in around 1.5 hours. I can render out a two hour, 1080p 30 sequence in 28 min. When I have 10 masters to deliver, I need the speed it offers.
Aren’t you the one who is all about speed? How FCX is so great that it speeds up your workflow so much that you can get more done in half the time? So now you are saying that that small car should be fine for me…it’ll just take a little longer? hmmmmmm….
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Bill Davis] “The “weight” in this case is the rasters we all need to manipulate. The old view was that bigger and bigger rasters need more grunt to push around. But that’s the exact opposite of the trends towards proxy and similar reference file editing. “
As I’m sure you know offline/online has been around for a really long time. It’s not new. Though it seems to be going in cycles:
We offline/online SD.
Computers/storage hit a speed and price point where many (most?) can work with online quality SD throughout editorial.
HD comes around and it’s w-a-y bigger than SD.
We offline/online HD.
Computers/storage hit a speed and price point where many (most?) can work with online quality HD throughout editorial.
4K/6K/8K comes around and it’s w-a-y bigger than HD.
We offline/online 4K/6K/8K.
Computers/storage (will eventually) hit a speed and price point where many (most?) can work with online quality 4K/6K/8K throughout editorial.Apple’s relatively recent focus on making a solid offline/online workflow in their NLE goes hand in hand with their main desire to make thinner, lighter, and quieter hardware. Apple used to brag about making the fastest computers in the world, now they brag about making the thinest. Just because Apple focuses on thinner, lighter and quieter doesn’t mean that slightly thicker, slightly heavier, slightly louder, but more powerful machines are passé. Maybe one could change one’s workflow around in order to suite Apple’s whims… or maybe one could just buy a computer that suits one’s needs better than anything Apple sells (which is doable when most of one’s software is OS agnostic).
Not to speak for Shane, but he does a lot of offline editorial during the day and a lot of online editorial at night. I think he’s pretty qualified to understand how well offline quality proxy files can look these days as well as the need for speed so one can work at online resolutions in a timely fashion.
[Bill Davis] “PLUS you don’t have to lug around heavyweight gear or be tied endlessly to a wall outlet at your desk in order to comfortably get your work done.”
Not everyone edits on the go so lugging around heavyweight gear is certainly a case by case basis. Ex. my three monitors, color panel, audio monitors, Logitech Gamepad, and RAID stay on my desk in a comfortable, ergonomic office. When I edit at someone else’s facility it’s typically a similar setup (multiple monitors, sit/stand desk, shared storage on a SAN, etc.,) so going plug free/wireless isn’t an option either. Even when I do edit in the field on a laptop I have to stay near power because laptops can’t handle 8-12hrs of editing on a single battery charge.
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+2! Literally the only thing keeping me on Mac. Although I like cutting with FCPX and have a ton of investment in 3rd party tools for it I hate seeing all the new tech out there and not being able to use it! The GTX1080 and now Gen7 Intel CPU’s not to mention M.2 drives, Thunderbolt 3 etc etc…
I’ve got my 12 core 2012 MacPro souped up as far as it will go – literally – and it’s not enough to finish 4K shows in a smooth, real-time way. As far as ProRes, I’ve though about switching back to DNxHD and then keeping a cheap Mac around to render deliverables. Or subscribe to Scratch but that’s $69 per month just to render ProRes in Windows…
even if Apple releases a mind blowing Mac Pro in 2017 it’s not going to be cheap. For $3500 you can build an up-to-the-second dream machine in the Windows world that would blow away anything from Apple if they stick with AMD. I’m not an Avid user anymore and never plan to be so I have to decide if Premiere/Resolve combo will make me forget about FCPX…
Happy New Year
It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.
Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1 -
[Lance Bachelder] “+2! Literally the only thing keeping me on Mac. Although I like cutting with FCPX and have a ton of investment in 3rd party tools for it I hate seeing all the new tech out there and not being able to use it! “
Me too, but Bill says we don’t need it so that’s OK
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