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Should I still charge a kill fee in this instance?
About an hour before an edit session I was scheduled for, the client cancelled. They still have me booked for tomorrow. Typically I will charge my date rate for a cancellation that is not given with 24 hours advanced notice, but right now I am undecided about implementing the “kill fee” because:
1) This is the first session I am having with this client.
2) They are a big name, and it would do leaps and bounds for my career if I have an ongoing relationship with them. I don’t want to risk spoiling a good business relationship.
These are new waters for me. I do want to assert myself and make sure my client knows that my time is important, on the other hand I’m not sure if I am being too inflexible in this situation.
So veterans of the industry, do you have any words of advice?
Thank you.
– Evan
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19 Replies
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The answer is it depends on your relationship witht hat client. It is quite the norm to charge a half day. I can’t see anyone getting bent out of shape over that. Charge a full day and you are dancin’…again depending on the relationship.
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Thanks Grinner. Charging a half-day’s rate sounds right in this situation.
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Evan,
There is no perfect answer for independents and freelancers. You have to make a judgement call, plain and simple. It happens to all of us at one time or another, and it’s never easy to figure out what the right answer is. If you’re working for a big post house or if you’re a union shop, it’s a no-brainer, but for the rest of us, unless there was a preexisting agreement agreement in place, there’s just no telling how the client will react.
The best solution is, very early in your session tomorrow, to simply mention that standard policy in our business dictates that you charge a kill fee. Then, ask what their company policy is on such matters. Make it dispassionate, unemotional, and all business, and if you’re lucky, you should be able to get a simple dispassionate response from your client.
Good luck…
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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Yeah talk to the client.
I might let them off the first time if they looked like life could be good if they used me a lot.
Could invoice them for the kill fee, then discount it off the bottom line as “one time free kill” – reminds them not to do it again and get all grindy on you.
The Brit in Brisbane
The Pomme in Production – Brisbane Australia. -
I’ll offer some alternative perspectives. None of this is intended as scolding, or any suggestion that you’re doing the wrong thing. You’re doing the best possible thing by asking.
I just don’t know that I’m the one to give you an answer that you….or anyone else here….might have any use for. 🙂
Having a client big enough to create their own weather systems, their own centers of gravity, means they got to write their own rules. I had one like this, who did indeed make a huge difference to me.
First, a general principle that applies no matter what size the client:
If you haven’t told ’em up front that you’ll charge them if they hold you up, and they haven’t agreed to it in advance, in writing, you’re stuck.
Put it this way. If a client tried to throw up a new rule that you hadn’t agreed to in advance, you’d be on this forum SCREAMING….and you’d be right.
Not that you can’t mention it, but frankly, I wouldn’t. In similar situations, I didn’t. If they really are big, and you really do hope to work for them for a long time, take the money, and get used to be being pushed around. It stinks, but this is why they call it work.
Look, I know that we’re all about the “treat me like I’m a professional” thing here….but seriously, one of the things that professionals do is suck it up in front of the client, then come here to rant. We start businesses because we want to be our own bosses, which hides a couple of hard truths:
–We are not our own bosses. Every monkey with a checkbook is our boss.
–We don’t like taking orders, which makes us absolutely useless for “real” jobs. When you get a client capable of paying you as if you had a real job, act like you have one. They call it WORK, because it ain’t easy.
Now, here’s the other side of this. Sometimes they kept me waiting for forever. They canceled on short notice, WANTED me on short notice, had me work with contacts in the organization who hated me…well, that’s strong language. They held out on me, obstructed me, and didn’t respect me.
So what did I do? I did my job. I smiled like a monkey. I gave them more than what they paid for.
What did I get for my trouble? They came to support me in every aspect of my work. They gave me more and more creative freedom. They paid.
They became dear friends – not just the big client, but also people like the “gatekeeper” who banged on the table and said they’d make sure the client never approved the first deal. I can’t begin to express how bad it was, and how good it got.
Seriously, we got a LOT of advice to steer clear of this deal, and some of those people respected us a lot less because of how well it worked out for us.
Here became the “hardest” part of the job: the client had hotels, restaurants, boats. Sometimes they wanted us to go out with them when we really wanted to take a nap. Or, to be less flippant, when it meant we’d have to stay up all night to finish another client’s work.
I’m going on at way too much length, but my experience is that there can be plenty of upside to playing along. Taking money for work you enjoy, and enjoying the people you work for – anybody here have a problem with rearranging your schedule for that?
If it works out, you’ll find them apologizing for things like standing you up. If it doesn’t, well, you’ll fire them and that will be that. But my own first step would be to let this one go, and never mention it.
It worked for me. Made all the difference in the rest of my career. Your mileage will vary.
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[Tim Wilson] “If you haven’t told ’em up front that you’ll charge them if they hold you up, and they haven’t agreed to it in advance, in writing, you’re stuck. “
BINGO
Always set expectations up front.
When a client books you always let them know of ANY potential fees. Simply explain that because you are setting aside your time for them, time that could be spent making money working for other clients that you need to be compensated appropriately.
[Evan John] “kill fee”
I would always refer to it as a “cancelation fee” to the client. Phrasing it like like you have could potentially confuse a client.
There are no “technical solutions” to your “artistic problems”.
Don’t let technology get in the way of your creativity! -
Went out for wings last week and my sissy little self ordered plain wings with a side of medium sauce. On the bill was a charge for $ .50 for the side of sauce, which would have been all over the wings if I’d ordered them that way. When I asked the waiter why, he said that they put butter on the plain wings so the sauce is now a “side order”. I asked why he didn’t tell me when I ordered it, he said “It’s only fifty cents” in a kind of a smart ass way. No problem.
I did not tip him.
I will never return to that restaurant.
It was his duty to tell me about the charge when he took the order.And, it’s not about 50 lousy cents. It’s about them thinking that it was OK to do what they did.
And, I will tell everyone who cares that I won’t return to that establishment, ever. And remember, it was only fifty cents. By the way, I’ve been eating there for 30 years.
Do you get my point?
Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It’s a dry heat!Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .Ask me how to Market Yourself using Send Out Cards
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Point well taken Steve. Considering I don’t want to chance screwing up a possibly great relationship, I will email the client stating there is 24 hours notice to avoid this problem in the in the future.
Typically I don’t run into these issues because 99% of my work comes from different cable networks, but they are all under the same media conglomerate, hence the same cancellation policy, which was explicit from the start. This is all new to me, so thanks everyone for their .02
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[Gav Bott] “Could invoice them for the kill fee, then discount it off the bottom line as “one time free kill” – reminds them not to do it again and get all grindy on you. “
That’s a good way to approach this for a “first time offense.” Show the fee to remind them that you are running a business and there will be fees for cancellations, but then discount the fee off for a good faith move on your part.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media“Foul Water, Fiery Serpent” now in Post.
Creative Cow Forum Host:
Apple Final Cut Pro, Apple Motion, Apple Color, AJA Kona, Business & Marketing, Maxx Digital. -
This is also the way I handle discounts, if any are given. I write the invoice at full amount and then add a line item that specifies the discount, the reason why, and then I deduct that amount from the total.
That way, they know that this is not the price but that I am acknowledging a reason for a discount, one that they cannot try to impose every time they do business with us.
Using the invoice as a “smoke signal” to send up a notice that they have committed a Bozo No-No and it will cost them if they do it again, is a nice way to let them know that you are indeed a business and not their patsy.
Best regards,
Ron Lindeboom
Creativity is a type of learning process where the teacher and pupil are located in the same individual.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
– Antoine de Saint Exupéry
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