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24 fps ProRes HD to PAL SD without blur
Hello all,
I’ve got a short film in ProRes, 1920 x 1080 24fps.
Need to put it on DigiBeta SD PAL 25fps.
I’ve run a few tests doing the conversion in compressor and it looks terribly blurry, even when i set frame controls to best resize, best frame rate conversion.
The guy in the Digi Beta place told me there’s no way around the blur.
THis can’t be right, studio movies (presumably shot in 24) look completely sharp as PAL DVDs… how do i get there?
Any help greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ben
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25 Replies
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[Ben Knight] “best frame rate conversion.”
Make a test with Fast (Nearest frame).
rafael -
Movie studios have access to very high end equipment too. They don’t use Compressor. They will run things through hardware standards converters like terranex
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Hi Rafael… I actually tried that…. Hate to say it, but I thought it was too… fast.
Do you think that’s the only way to keep the sharpness? -
Thanks, Shane… what’s the best possible outcome for a little dude like myself? Cheers, B
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[Ben Knight] “Hi Rafael… I actually tried that…. Hate to say it, but I thought it was too… fast.
Do you think that’s the only way to keep the sharpness?”
Then try with the second option: Frame blending.
The point is to not reprocess every single frame.
Fast mode will work just repeating the missed frame (24 > 25).
Frame Blending will do the same but will get the missed frames by blending the adjacent.
Motion Compensated and “High quality Motion Compensated” (Optic Flow), will reprocess every single frame and will soft the picture.
As Shane says, the best option is a Teranex, and as Blackmagic has reduced the prices from few tens of thousands to barely 1K, Teranex is not anymore an option limited to megabucks productions.
rafael -
the REAL reason why PAL DVDs of Studio Movies look fine is NOT because of complex frame-rate conversion hardware,
it is because the films are run at 25fps,
so one frame is one frame.in FCS world, that is very simple, you just take an export of your program, and “Conform” it using Cinema Tools.
the film runs faster (compare run times on amazon us & amazon uk)
and without pitch correction, the sound plays at a higher pitch.
this needs to be pretty good to work well, so if you don’t have access to good pitch correction it might be better left un-donecheers,
nick -
Thanks Rafael… I tested the various setting in Compressor, still pretty blurry. Post Houses in LA will put it on digi beta tape and do a Teranex conversion for like $130… So I guess that’s what I’ll do.
How good should I expect the results to be? Is it going to be really sharp do you think… or in between the original and my compressor tests regarding quality.
Thanks,
Ben -
[Ben Knight] ” Thanks, Shane… what’s the best possible outcome for a little dude like myself?”
Compressor. Use the settings Raf suggests.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Ben Knight] ” Post Houses in LA will put it on digi beta tape and do a Teranex conversion for like $130…”
Oh, man, how do they make money or is “post” as a business model completely broken?
PAL conversion and DBeta master? $130 is a joke — may as well do it for free.
But do agree with Rafael — “Fast” is the way to go — same as with converting 23.98 to 29.97, that’s how you get field/pulldown, instead of re-computing every frame. However, the other way…. from original 29.97 –> 25 or 23.98 sans ABCD cadence is another can of worms.
jPo
“I always pass on free advice — its never of any use to me” Oscar Wilde.
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Hi guys,
Yeah, I guess I’ll go professional Teranex.
But I’m still running compressor tests to see what I can do. Settings are as follows:
File format: DV Stream
Format PAL
Frame Controls On
Rate conversion: Fast as per Rafael’s suggestionQuestions:
Set duration to 100% or play Source at 25?What about the settings for Resize?
Had resize to fast
Output fields: same as source
De-interlace fastI set duration to 100% of source.
And yeah, that was still pretty blurry.
Tried again with duration: “Source plays at 25fps”
And I think that might have even been a tiny bit blurrier again.Have I got the settings right?
Thanks a bunch.
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