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DVCPRO 50 offline to DVCPRO HD 720p online Final Cut Studio and CS4 workflow
iMac OSX 10.6.5 – Snow Leopard
3.3 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
8GB
ATI Radeon HD 4670
1TB (internal) 4TB (external usb)Fianl Cut Studio 7
Adobe CS4Project Duration: 14 months
Hello,
We should state from the beginning that most of our editing experience has been using long GOP MPEG-2 codecs, DVCAM 50i/60i, HDV 50i/60i, etc. with G4s, G5s and iMacs.
We are looking to build the above workflow (subject) from the ground up. The target workflow is as follows:
Capture using a Panasonic HVX200a (50Hz) with a 35mm Letus in DCVPRO 50 to P2 and, simultaneously, in DVCPRO HD 720p using a Firestore. Funding will be split between a music production/recording studio and a professional basketball club, both located near Marseille, France. The principle interest of the two entities is corporate identity amelioration using the lower data-rate formats, with uncompressed DVCPRO HD 720p as our master, should we ever want to blow-up our footage. The uncompressed data will most likely be archived and stored using a third-party production house. We perceive an advantage in being able to satisfy our short-term corporate identity needs with readily output ‘offline’ editing in low data-rates, archiving at the same time our uncompressed data for future uses. Any format inferior to DVCPRO HD 720p at 100 Mbps we are loosely refering to as our ‘offline’, but this footage will be frequently output for smaller screens.
1) Is our theoretical workflow methodology correct?
2) Does this seem like a proper technique for limiting our uncompressed media’s storage capacity needs, profiting from the benefit of accurately being able to archive our larger-file footage with timecode from our lower data-rate corporate projects?
3) Is our P2/Firestore configuration accurate? Or should it be inversed?
Seeing that our current workflow is confined to primarily MPEG-2 compression practices on iMacs, the following questions pertain to hardware.
4) Being that it was essential to have a Mac Pro with 2 duo-cores to work with uncompressed footage in real-time using Final Cut as of last year, what new capacities do quad-core processors provide the NLE?
5) What does an i5 4Go give us that last year’s duo-core couldn’t concerning digital video?
6) Could the new, consumer-level, 27-inch iMacs be used (if upgraded) for such a workflow described above?
7) If yes, how?
8) Can iMacs support capture cards, render boxes and hardware accelerators (AJA)?
8) If yes, what can the current system handle?
9) What could a new i5 handle?
10) How flexible are Mac Pros? Meaning, should the music production studio want to purchase a Mac Pros for their Pro Tools workflow needs, can Mac Pros be upgraded to editing and motion graphic designing uncompressed media capacities in the near future?
11) If yes, what is the correct ‘entry-level’ Mac Pro with this ‘build-as-you-go’ hardware project in mind?
The idea being that we would like to begin ‘offlining’ and archiving on the current iMac, use the Pro for music needs, with the intention of ‘piecing together’ our final system at the end of 7 months. The two HVXs soon will be purchased and represent a significant investment. Neither entity wishes to invest �50k for start-up, but budget during the next 14 months has been allocated from the two investors. Hence, our ‘build-as-you-go’ methodology.
12) What is ‘the best’ setup considering our existing system, our desire to purchase a new computer, and our workflow specifications (external hardware included)? Meaning, once together, what kind of Mac would we need to have in our possession for these tasks?
13) If we had unlimited funds, where could we go directly from here, with our current system as companion, to achieve the target workflow in mind (archiving and storage will be handled by a production house but information concerning proper RAID for our set-up is pertinant, not essential)?
This is a hydra-inquery loaded with slippery questions, so we should kindly ask that only qualified professionals or serious amateur enthusiasts respond. Globally, this inquiry appertains to Final Cut Pro because that is our NLE of choice. If our inquiry is too bulky it can be broken up.
Please, consider that we are on 50Hz, PAL specs and are dependant on the availabilty of equipment for that market.
Thanks to Steven ASCHER, Edward PINCUS and Pascal LE MOAL for references.
Any and all information or criticisms pertaining to our inquiry is humbly appreciated in advance.
Best Regards,
Neil CHADDERDON on behalf of Fos-Sur-Mer BC and Le Bus
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9 Replies
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I would just shoot 720p and then make an SD master if needed. Really.
Also, don’t think you can feed the FireStore anything but what is being recorded.Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC -
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Understood. Your input is much appreciated.
We see your point. Our inexperience with Log and Transfer, down-converting from high data-rates, and DVCPRO in general, should now be plainly evident.
The bulk of our inquiry pertains to hardware requirements for ingesting, editing, and short-sited output.
1) What Mac system do we need to be on for the for this to take place using DVCPRO HD 720p uncompressed?
Preserving the uncompressed 4:2:2 color is our objective for longer-term projects. It’s not entirely essential, in the short term, as the cameras will have multiple uses (scouting, recruting, profiling). We are hoping to guard some good 720p stock in tow should we ever need it.
2) With your proposed workflow what external hardware (AJA or others) would be intergral.
3) In conjuction with which Mac with which specifications?
4) Compressor or Quicktime Pro can handle the task, right? Is there a third-party compression program involved for the down-conversion for the ‘offlined’ formats from 720p at 100 Mbs?
Information beyond a 50i PAL workflow is difficult to aquire in France, so any assistance is appreciated 10-fold. HD competence, even amongst professionals, is still in development. Links are acceptable.
Best Regards,
Neil CHADDERDON on behalf of Fos-Sur-Mer BC and Le Bus
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DVCPRO HD is NOT uncompressed.
Any Intel mac or better will edit DVCPRO HD. Get a couple SATA drives stripped. Even an Ext. FW 800 drive will do.
If you are shooting Tapeless – and do not MASTER out to TAPE, then you do not need an I/O card. If you do need that, AJA or Blackmagic works well. They both have cheap cards that do the basics.
Compressor will do for you. If you want more Compression options, I recommend Episode Compression Software. But is sounds like you’re on a budget.
Chris Tompkins
Video Atlanta LLC -
I edited DVCPRO HD with a G5 and firewire drives. Heck, a G4 and firewire drives. It is one VERY easy codec to deal with. ONe of the easiest.
And it isn’t uncompressed. It is WELL compressed…compressed well. 4:2:2 color space, 8-bit (opposed to 10-bit), and anamorphic. Better than HDV by a lot…but less than ProRes.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
A thousand thanks. Wealthful knowledge.
Yes, there are budgetary considerations. They’re roughly outlined in the 1st inquiry. Bluntly, the basketball club is purchasing the HVXs and lighting and the Studio is purchasing the computer for their Pro Tool needs. The two investors will make funds available during the entire course of the 14 month project. How much goes toward hardware after the inital computer is purchased will be weighed by other production costs.
Seeing that we already have iMacs capable of handling their Pro Tools purposes (listed at top of thread). We think it may be a finacial faux-pas including another iMac into the workflow.
Initially, the studio wanted a i5 4Go with standard graphics card. We’re hoping this money can be directed towards a computer with augmented NLE potential: a Mac Pro. The studio is waiting for us to ok their computer choice and is willing to suit this choice to our needs, provided the system isn’t €10k.
We’re looking for our central brain. Our iMacs are intended to be companions. It would be reckless to spend €4k on a new iMac when we already possess the capacity for their existing Pro Tools requirements (and our DVCPRO HD needs seeing that an iMac will work).
1) With no experience using a Mac Pro, what would be a logical and economical choice from a post-production standpoint?
We should probably mention that multiple formats will be used, to include JPEG 2000 shot in extremely high frame-rates. DVCPRO formats will be our principle capture formats. We would like to keep the up/down-conversion in house, so we know we need a beast.
2) Which one is sufficient?
Best Regards,
Neil CHADDERDON
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Much appreciated.
Could you elaborate on the differences (advantages/disadvantages) between ProRes and DVCPRO HD?
Long, drawn-out explanations are welcomed.
Best Regards,
Neil CHADDERDON
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ProRes… 10-bit, 4:2:2 color space. Full raster (1920×1080 or 1280×720).
DVCPRO HD… 8-bit 4:2:2 color space. Thin raster, or Anamorphic (1280×1080 and 960×720).
I don’t do long drawn out explainations, I work and can only do short, succinct answers. That’s what wikipedia.org is for. Look up those formats there…read up.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Thank you, Shane
We’ve read and bookmarked some of your prior thread contributions.
Your input is greatly appreciated.
Neil CHADDERDON
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