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How to reconnect your media if the clips don’t match?
I’m still trying to workout a workflow to deal with DPX sequences in FCP. I have DPX files which I want to do an offline workflow with because I don’t have Gluetools or a RAID and probably not a fast enough machine to deal with them online.
So I want to convert the DPX to prores to edit offline. But the problem is how to re-connect the media later. Because the DPX sequences need to be sent to VFX and they represent about 50% of this feature length project. I have to first edit the wole show offline and then send the DPX shots to VFX after I have edited them in offline form because I have to send only the frames I use in the edit. But to VFX I need to send the original DPX versions, not the prores. They won’t work on prores when they have DPX.
The first problem is how to reconnect the finished VFX shots later on the timeline. Once everything is finished, VFX can send me QT clips of the finished shots. But I can’t just reconnect my timeline to this finished shots because they will no longer be the whole raw clip but just the portions used. Because if the raw clip was 2min but I only used the first 30sec I can’t send the whole 2min in DPX to VFX. I have to send only the first 30sec (with handles of course) because they would be wasting time working on the rest of the clip which isn’t being used. So when the clips comeback they no longer correspond to the raw clips. They are now just small parts. So how do I relink them? I hope there’s another way besides doing it all manually, which given it’s 50% of the project would mean re-editing 50% of the project again when the VFX shots comeback.
The second problem is how to send only the DPX frames that correspond to the parts of the (prores)footage I used on the timeline. After I cut the offline footage, I have to send the DPX frames that correspond to the footage I ended up using in the edit to VFX. Doing it manually will mean basically picking the frames by hand , which would again be almost like recuting the footage again. But here, since DPX has no timecode I’m not sure there’s another way besides doing it manually. But at least for the footage relink I hope there’s a way at least.
This is my first offline project.
Does anybody have any ideas on how to do this?
Thanks in advace. -
16 Replies
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[Adam Claude Jones] “But here, since DPX has no timecode I’m not sure there’s another way besides doing it manually.”
What is the source of your DPX files? Are they scans coming out of a scanner? In that case the DPX files will normally have some time codes embedded in them.
You can convert these DPX sequences into QuickTime ProRes files in Color. Color creates Quicktimes which carry the same timecode as the DPX. Maybe if the DPX have some source info that too will get carried into the QuickTime.
You can then edit the ProRes files in FCP and make an EDL. This EDL in Color can reconnect back to the original DPX. You can then render out the DPX into new sequences, this time with handles so you have new DPX sequences that have only the used files not the original DPX length.
VFX can work on these and send them back to you. Then you can again use Color to create ProRes files.
FCP may not reconnect these ProRes files back to the sequence as now the length has changed. Depending on the number of shots, you can either plug them in manually (you have visual reference so it’s quite easy)If the number of shots is large, you can use FCP Reconnect to reconnect. That works even if the length is different from the original as it only looks at time code to reconnect.
Ideally you need to have GlueTools and FCP Reconnect. And Pomfort Silverstack to do easy DPX to QT conversions where you can view DPX info easily, and even do colour space conversions.
I have all three, and can help if you need.
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Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India -
Thanks for the detailed reply Neil. I appreciate it.
[Neil Sadwelkar]“What is the source of your DPX files? Are they scans coming out of a scanner? In that case the DPX files will normally have some time codes embedded in them.”
No. There original files were Cineform 10 bit 4:2:2. So not sure if it had actual timecode.[Neil Sadwelkar]“You can convert these DPX sequences into QuickTime ProRes files in Color. Color creates Quicktimes which carry the same timecode as the DPX. Maybe if the DPX have some source info that too will get carried into the QuickTime.”
That would be handy. I would have to see if the DPX has some sort of timecode but my guess is it doesn’t. I guess all I have to work with is time duration. But Since the DPX were converted from the original camera files I may ask for it to be re-converted and to add some timecode this time if that would be even possible. If so, what type of timecode would you advise?
[Neil Sadwelkar]“You can then edit the ProRes files in FCP and make an EDL. This EDL in Color can reconnect back to the original DPX. You can then render out the DPX into new sequences, this time with handles so you have new DPX sequences that have only the used files not the original DPX length.”
So I would edit the ex-DPX prores files along with the rest of the show which is not DPX, finished the cut, make an EDL, open that EDL in Color, reconnect only the DPX parts of the show, then render out only the DPX parts into new DPX sequences and send that to VFX? Just making sure we are on the same page.
[Neil Sadwelkar]“VFX can work on these and send them back to you. Then you can again use Color to create ProRes files.”
Once the VFX shots comeback finished they would still be in DPX and as they will need to be strongly color corrected since the director wants a very pushy look to the show, converting them to prores before the grade wouldn’t be that great. I only QT to send it to FCP right? So I could grade it in DPX? Otherwise I would like to convert them to 10 bit uncompressed QT instead of prores. Could I still do this in Color?
So I would be reconforming in Color? The finished VFX shots would not even touch FCP till they have been graded and finished? And once I’m finished with the grade I use “send to FCP” and from there I just render out of FCP normally (for DVD) and render out of Color in DPX in case they do get a filmout ?(they may be sponsored for a filmout). In the case of rendering the finished show directly out of Color to DPX I may not even need to convert the finished shots to QT since I guess Color can work with DPX just fine. It was actually made for that right? Still not sure of that.
[Neil Sadwelkar]“FCP may not reconnect these ProRes files back to the sequence as now the length has changed.”
Oh, so I do need to reconform in FCP and not in Color? I thought if I would reconform in Color and use send to FCP I could just send it as a new sequence and FCP would not need to look for anything? I guess I misunderstood then.
[Neil Sadwelkar]“Depending on the number of shots, you can either plug them in manually (you have visual reference so it’s quite easy)”
Well, I have about 5TB of DPX shots here, so not exactly little 🙂
[Neil Sadwelkar]“If the number of shots is large, you can use FCP Reconnect to reconnect. That works even if the length is different from the original as it only looks at time code to reconnect.”
Never used it, so don’t know how it works. But I will check it out.
[Neil Sadwelkar]“Ideally you need to have GlueTools and FCP Reconnect. And Pomfort Silverstack to do easy DPX to QT conversions where you can view DPX info easily, and even do colour space conversions.”
FCP-reconnect seems cheap enough, but the whole idea of doing this offline workflow is to avoid Gluetools and a big RAID. Would I still need Gluetools then? Color can’t work with DPX without Gluetools? And wont Color convert the DPX to QT without Pomfort Silverstack?
[Neil Sadwelkar]“I have all three, and can help if you need.”
Thanks very much for the offer Neil. But with the amount of material I have it wouldn’t be very feasible. But thanks a lot and thanks for helping me iron out this workflow. Man, I miss the DV days 🙂
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If you are going to toy with FCPreconnect, drop me a line and send me a DPX file.
Perhaps i can find some TC info in there…Bouke
https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros -
Hi Bouke, thanks for the offer. Very nice of you. I will definitely take you up on it as it seems I may indeed end up using FCPreconnect.
Should I just contact you through your website? -
Sure, contact is on the site.
If it does not work or i’m slow with responding, google my full name and you’ll find an alternate adress as well.
(I get a tremendous amount of e-mail…)Bouke
https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pros -
Thanks. I will definitely do that.
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Hi Neil,
I’m wondering if you saw my reply to you bellow?
Thanks.
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If its in this thread, then yes I’ve read it.
The long one where you’ve responded to my observations, point by point?https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/8/1125300
Right after that Bouke replied too and I thought you two were going to work it out offline.
If you still need help, let me know.
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Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India -
Hi Neil, yes, I was talking about the one I responded to your observations point by point.
I think with Bouke I can workout the things related to FCPreconnect, but this is just a part of the whole workflow.
So it would be great if you could reply. 😉
Thanks a lot! -
But Since the DPX were converted from the original camera files I may ask for it to be re-converted and to add some timecode this time if that would be even possible. If so, what type of timecode would you advise?
If the DPX files have some timecode, and the folder name as ‘Source’ or ‘Reel’ then it’s easy for any system to tag them and conform as that’s how files come out of scanners.
So I would edit the ex-DPX prores files along with the rest of the show which is not DPX, finished the cut, make an EDL, open that EDL in Color, reconnect only the DPX parts of the show, then render out only the DPX parts into new DPX sequences and send that to VFX? Just making sure we are on the same page.
That may be tedious. What you could try is to do a ‘Send to Color’, set the Color project format to DPX. Grade in Color but don’t do a ‘Send to FCP’. Instead, just render. Your DPX originated files as well as non-DPX files will now all become DPX sequences, one per timeline clip.
Now change the Color project settings back to whatever it was QuickTime ProRes whatever. do a render again and a ‘Send to FCP’
Once back to FCP, you have a QuickTime version of the program as well.
Send the Color DPXs to VFX. When they return them, presumably with the same names and embedded timecode and reel info, they should reconnect to your Color project. Now you can regrade them in Color and you can use Color to convert them to QuickTime and reconnect them to your FCP sequence using FCP reconnect.
FCP-reconnect seems cheap enough, but the whole idea of doing this offline workflow is to avoid Gluetools and a big RAID. Would I still need Gluetools then? Color can’t work with DPX without Gluetools? And wont Color convert the DPX to QT without Pomfort Silverstack?
Glue tools is more expensive than FCP Reconnect, but they do different things. Glue Tools is invaluable in some situations when Color cannot open DPX files, and/or Color DPX files won’t open in other systems. This is the ‘endian-ness’ issue that you may come up against, if you are interoperating with Autodesk Smoke/Flame/Lustre with Apple Color. GlueTools is your only recourse then.
Hope I’ve addressed all the points you’ve mentioned.
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Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India
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