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Proxy editing in FCP
I am working for a large digital archives, and we are currently developing a custom web-based proxy media browser application. (We have over 8000 miniDV tapes and we are now receiving all our video in XDCAM format).
The idea is to make low resolution proxy versions of all our video files, so they can be browsed online. Our video editing department can then immediately choose the files that they want to use for their editing work – without having to request the High resolution videos from us (which often takes us a few days to supply).
We want to encode the proxy videos as H.264 mp4 files because they have small file sizes and we want to store all the video online. However the video editing team have asked us if it is possible to encode the proxy videos in a format that they can do proxy-editing with in FCP, and then they can replace the full res videos later.
Storing the files as H.264 is going to mean about 7 to 10TBs of data – which itself is pretty large, so if we use a format more suited to editing I’m worried that the filesizes would be too large.
I initially tested encoding the H.264 files using ffmpeg on linux – but FCP would not accept them (I just got a “General Error” message). Creating them using Apple Compressor seemed to work. I have seen many people on this forum who are totally against using H.264 as an editing format, so I would like to know if anybody has any suggestions on the best approach for this.
Kind Regards
Swami
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7 Replies
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Hi Swami,
It’s difficult to suggest a format that’s both good for storing online and also for editing with.
My suggestion is perhaps something you’ve already considered, but if not it may be useful to you.
Have a look at some software called CatDV – it’s ideal for archiving. Basically you capture the tape, then CatDV converts it to a proxy file. Then in CatDV you can review files, add annotations etc and even do offline editing with the proxies. You can then send an XML from CatDV to FCP, and tell FCP to re-link to the original hi-res files.
It’s not exactly what you’re asking for but it’s a solution which might work for you.Someone else may be able to offer different solutions.
All the best,
Alex Elkins -
It highly depends on how long the footage is that the editors have to work with.
If it’s not too much, they can transcode the proxies to something handier before the edit starts.FFmpeg is golden for you. It definitly can do everything you want, EXCEPT timecode. But i can probably fix that for you.
(I have my clients log with FFmpeg generated proxies as well, and i’ve made a util that inserts the QT TC)
Or, you can always use Compressor for the proxy generation.
Slower than FFmpeg, but it can retain the TC info.
But with your amount of footage, if it’s not ingested, look into something that ingests the footage to proxy QT in one pass.
(doable)Another thing is how to reconnect to the online files.
If you are going to batch capture from the tapes, you only need TC and Reel info.
If it’s file based, you MUST keep track of your file names, as FCP refers to that for relinking.
I have made a util that can do the conversion, but it’s not perfect if clips have long names. (Still trying to improve that…)If you are handy with a commandline, do continue to study FFmpeg, and join the FFmpeg user list.
As for XDcam, it can very well be that the discs contain plain SD DV files instead of IMX. But for the workflow, it does not really matter.
You could have a look at my tools for this.
On my site you’ll find an app that can extract proxies with HQ audio, a util that can do a file based conform on XDcam disks, and a decent logger that will work with the proxies and FCP.
(and i can customize those for you if needed)Bouke
https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro’s -
FCP has a proxy format called “Offline RT”. It’s a small raster Photo JPEG format that produces pretty small file sizes. Have someone in your editorial department digitize some stuff in that format and see what file sizes you’re getting and how that will effect your storage needs.
Arnie
Post production is not an afterthought!
https://www.arniepix.com/ -
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the suggestion. I just had a brief look through the CatDV site. It looks very good – and highly relevant to what we want to do. Do you know if the video-editing functionality could be accessed over the network, in the same way as the intranet/webpage library?
We already have a custom xml-based ‘events’ database, which I was planning to extend to manage our media assets. (We categorize everything by event). But I suppose I could just link to the corresponding web pages produced by the CatDV app…
One more thing… We are already capturing our DV footage using Quicktime – to produce MOV files. We are then backing these up on LTO tapes (since our miniDV tapes are getting a bit old now). Could I import these into CatDV and still get it to make the proxies?
I think I’ll download the trial version and experiment a bit.
Thanks again
Swami
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Hi Bouke,
Thanks for the response.
Our footage basically comes from 2 sources: our collection of miniDV tapes – which we are currently converting to MOV files, which are roughly an hour long; and a collection of XDCAM BPAVs. (The clips range anywhere from between a few seconds to about 13 minutes long). It’s a Sony XDCAM EX3.
I was also thinking that the video guys could just re-encode the clips they are interested in to an editing proxy like ProRes. But converting from H.264 takes quite a long time – and many times the videos that they produce might make use of potentially any of our archived footage over the last 10 years. Being able to drop any clip into the FCP edit line without needing to wait for it to be re-encoded would be a big advantage.
Timecode utility sounds great – that’s an issue that I had just about given up on.
Actually – I had originally intended using ffmpeg on a few linux machines with decent CPUs to do all the H.264 proxy encoding – but recently I found out about the Matrox compressHD card, which looks like it might do the job much faster using Compressor on the Mac. Do you have any experience with that?
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘ingested’:
“But with your amount of footage, if it’s not ingested, look into something that ingests the footage to proxy QT in one pass.”
Do you mean for the miniDV tapes – have a process that captures the tape to mov, and at the same time produces a proxy file?
Our aim is to have everything file-based (movs for the captured DVs and mp4s for the XDCAM) – all stored on LTO tapes. Our DVs/movs have succinct unique ID codes, so that’s not an issue. For the XDCAM stuff I was thinking about assigning a unique ID to each BPAV folder and then naming each proxy {BPAV-ID}-{MP4-name}.
I’m reasonably handy with the command line …
Do your utilities work with XDCAM EX3 footage?
Kind Regards
Swami
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Hey Swami
Here is another one for you to check out: https://www.frameline.tv
Best
Andy -
Swami,
With ingested, i mean if it’s already digitized or still lives on tape.And yes, my utils can work with XdCam EX files. (And a lot of them use FFmpeg, so that part you got covered yourself i would think.)
About FFmpeg, why not compile for Mac and keep it there?
(Runs great under OSx)As for a specific tool to get your proxies with TC, contact me direct.
bouke at videotooldhed.comIf you want to make something yourself, it’s also possible.
If you do a render to a proxy file using FFmpeg, and the duration stays the same, just copy / paste (self contained!) the QT TC track from source to proxy QT.
While you’re at it, copy the proxy into an empty fast start QT, and save that as self contained (If people want to have web access to the clips that will save a huge amount of time)
By default FFmpeg saves the fast start atom at the end, kinda sucks (although there are workarounds)
All doable with Applescript.As for the different codecs, why not make a double set, one for the editors, one for the rest.
Even with your insane amount of footage it’s doable.Last but not least, if you set up your sequence properly, you CAN edit real time with H264.
(But you have to render every effect)
Depending on how complex the edit is before going back to the sources, it might be good enough.Bouke
https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro’s
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