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Capture stops on TC breaks
HDV Digital Master tapes, shot on Sony Z1u.
Sony M25u tape deck.
FCP 6.
Capturing as HDV.
Definition: “Time Code Break” is not really a tc break; it’s often just a camera stop/start.
My Goal: capture every bit of what’s on tape, regardless of timecode breaks, and regardless of whether the captured files’ tc matches the tc on the tape.I have a lot of HDV tapes to capture. I want to “set it and forget it;” i.e. start a capture, go do something else and come back in an hour. I don’t care whether the time code on the captured file matches the tc on the tape; the captured files will be my new masters. When I set up FCP to ignore tc breaks, it actually aborts the capture. “Abort capture” is one of the options which I DIDN’T choose.
When I set up FCP to make a new clip on tc breaks, it does so, and keeps capturing (thus fulfilling my “leave the room and do something else” goal), but it (a) just about wears out the M25 deck see-sawing back and forth to find an in-point on a tc break; and (b) misses up to several seconds of original material between tc breaks. (b) is unacceptable.
What gives? I thought I’d give HDV a try on this project just to save valuable space on the drives, but this is a nuisance.
Bob C
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7 Replies
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[Bob Cole] “Definition: “Time Code Break” is not really a tc break; it’s often just a camera stop/start. “
Yup…that is the nature of HDV and the GOP format. GOP is a big bunch of data…3 real frames per second with a bunch of pictures (GROUP OF PICTURES…GOP) that the format uses to make up the rest of the frames. So it is a goggbledy-gook of information. When you stop the camera, you stop this data flow, so when you capture this tape in the native HDV format, or even if you capture as ProRes via firewire from HDV, this start stop is a break in the data, so new clips are formed.
[Bob Cole] “My Goal: capture every bit of what’s on tape, regardless of timecode breaks, and regardless of whether the captured files’ tc matches the tc on the tape. “
Then purchase an HD capture card and an HDV playback deck and capture via SDI. This will allow you to capture over those starts and stops. We do that all the time here on the show I am currently on…capture full tapes via SDI and the Kona LH and Kona 3 cards.
[Bob Cole] “I don’t care whether the time code on the captured file matches the tc on the tape; the captured files will be my new masters. “
YOu are just asking for trouble. Timecode is GOLD. If you edit away and work for months on a cut, and then the hard drive containing that data dies, or the footage is lost in any number of ways…you are hosed. You will have to recut the entire project. But even with non-controllable device chosen, with HDV I don’t think this is possible via firewire. All due to that GOP structure and how it “pinches off the data” when you start and stop. Like making a roll of sausages…one big tube, but every now and then you twist it off. Still connected, but separate.
Get a capture card to connect to the M25U. Then you can capture full clips as ProRes and not have to deal with breaks.
But you will eat up more drive space.
This is the fault of the HDV format, not FCP.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Thanks. I should have said I have the Kona LHe. I was trying to avoid using the Kona card in part due to a full RAID and more importantly because I’m editing part of the project and someone without a Kona is doing the rest.
How are you capturing SDI? SDI may be an option for me as I have a Convergent Design HD Connect. The Sony M25u has component video and HDMI out, unbalanced audio out. (Awhile back I tried using the HD Connect MI, but ran into technical problems and deadline pressure, so just used the M25’s component video out. I may try the Convergent Design device again.)
Yes, I know about timecode being great. It’s less important now, as I’ve gone over to backing up everything to LTO-3 tape, so I can bring a whole project back to life, with all the original filenames, folders, etc. Since then, I’ve rarely gone back to tape. But — you’re right, I have had to go back to tape occasionally.
Bob C
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[Bob Cole] “more importantly because I’m editing part of the project and someone without a Kona is doing the rest. “
They don’t need a Kona. Footage captured with the Kona can be viewed on any FCP system. Kona utilizes the Apple codecs.
[Bob Cole] “How are you capturing SDI? SDI may be an option for me as I have a Convergent Design HD Connect. “
THAT’S how. Perfect…you have the device that allows for that. That is exactly how I am doing it.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Shane Ross] ”
[Bob Cole] “How are you capturing SDI? SDI may be an option for me as I have a Convergent Design HD Connect. ”THAT’S how. Perfect…you have the device that allows for that. That is exactly how I am doing it.”
Shane, does the Convergent Design/SDI route get around the long-GOP gap? I’m losing about six seconds of material at camera starts, when capturing via Firewire/HDV.
Cant’ remember now what gave me problems, only that I gave up in some frustration with capturing via the HD Connect; if you have some inside info as to how to make this work I’d love to know about it.
Bob C
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[Bob Cole] “does the Convergent Design/SDI route get around the long-GOP gap?”
Yes. It converts the GOP signal to a straight SDI signal. I capture full tapes as ProRes.
How to make it work? Just connect the it to the deck via firewire, then HD SDI from it to the Kona, and RS-422 from it to the Kona, and do an Easy Setup for ProRes 1080i60. Make sure the deck sends out an HDV signal, and deck control is iLink.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Not to beat a dead horse, Shane, but are you saying that by using the SDI signal through the HD Connect, I won’t have those timecode gaps in capture, and I’ll no longer have to wait for that endless deck shuttling as the machine attempts to capture around the timecode gaps?
Bob C
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That is what I am saying. We use that box with our M10U deck and it works rather well. Every now and then it will stop, but I think that is because the stream is broken big time because they reviewed a shot and didn’t stop before the end of picture.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def
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