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How to determine 8-bit versus 10-bit ProRes media?
I received ProRes HQ media made from D5 (10-bit 4:2:2 HD digital master). I cut a trailer, rendered (video processing set to 10-bit YUV) on a native ProRes HQ sequence, and exported Quicktime movie (native ProResHQ) for film-out.
Film-out people said the ProRes file I gave them was 8-bit. So they prepped 8-bit instead of 16-bit image sequences to go to film.
So. Question is, how do I a) determine the bit depth of my Apple ProRes media? and b) control the bit depth of my Apple ProRes media?
Thank you!
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16 Replies
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I was under the impression it was 10-bit only.
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I, too, believe all ProRes is 10-bit.
John
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ProRes is a 10-bit codec only. Not 8 bit.
Shane
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Weeeeelllll, Chris, John and Shane, thank you! That means it wasn’t my fault. I’ll have to find out what process the film-out people used to read Quicktime movie file and make the image sequence. (This is a reputable outfit at that! I won’t name the silly blokes 😉
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[Bill Russell] “and exported Quicktime movie (native ProResHQ) for film-out. “
How exactly did you do this export? Please be very specific.
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Hello — okay, to answer your question, I did a Quicktime export using current settings. (I did NOT export through Quicktime Conversion.) The properties of the resulting exported file are Apple ProRes HQ, HD dimensions, 24-bit audio, same as sequence settings.
If the film-out folks said my file was 8-bit, and the Quicktime I gave them was Apple ProResHQ, and Apple ProRes HQ can ONLY be 10-bit… then problem is on their end, no?
Although something just came to mind… I have a dim memory that After Effects does not correctly handle Apple ProRes as 10-bit, but rather treats it as 8-bit, and you have to do some obscure tweak to make it do ProRes right. Is this accurate? I wonder if the film-out folks used After Effects, OR if the same problem shows up in other software they may have used to create the image sequence. Thoughts?
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[Bill Russell] “Hello — okay, to answer your question, I did a Quicktime export using current settings. (I did NOT export through Quicktime Conversion.)”
Thanks. You exported from the timeline and not the viewer, correct?
[Bill Russell] “then problem is on their end, no?”
Mmmm, could be. Did you add any effects or anything that are 8 bit only? What the D5 tape laid off 8bit to 10bit (meaning 8 bit material to 10bit tape). What was the original source footage? 8 bit?
[Bill Russell] “I have a dim memory that After Effects does not correctly handle Apple ProRes as 10-bit, but rather treats it as 8-bit, and you have to do some obscure tweak to make it do ProRes right. Is this accurate?”
Not obscure, just make sure the project is in 16bit, and render out trillions of colors(although trillions doesn’t make much difference as it’s beyond 10bit, but I do it anyway). Shouldn’t be too hard, but if you didn’t set the project to 16 bit, then you are rendering 8 bit and compressing it to a 10bit codec, so essentially, it is 8 bit.
[Bill Russell] ” wonder if the film-out folks used After Effects, OR if the same problem shows up in other software they may have used to create the image sequence. Thoughts?”
Mmm could be, hard to know without knowing what they did.
What triggered the film out place to say your movie was 8bit is my question? What were they looking at?
Jeremy
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AE supports 10 bit media quite well. It sounds like your filmout house does not. Or maybe they just don’t know how to use AE.
Arnie
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“AE reads ProRes in 8bit rather than 10bit. Same with shake.” (and there is also this from google.)
Yes, that’s what I remember being the case. And there is a workaround, a way to “fix” AE so that it treats ProRes correctly.
(Anyway, only relevant here if the film house used AE or Shake, or another program with the same ProRes limitations, to derive the image sequence. I don’t know that answer.)
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Thanks. You exported from the timeline and not the viewer, correct?
Yup. Of course.
Did you add any effects or anything that are 8 bit only? What the D5 tape laid off 8bit to 10bit (meaning 8 bit material to 10bit tape). What was the original source footage? 8 bit?
The ProRes file would be 10-bit data no matter what, no? That’s what people are saying here. So if there is quality loss or artifacts like quantization from prior 8-bit processing, it still wouldn’t matter — it is now ProRes, which means 10-bit density, whether it came from prior 8, 10, 16 or 32 floating point. Have I got that right? DNxHD is different, in that it can be either. But it seems the wisdom here is ProRes is always 10bit, just like uncompressed 10bit is of course always 10bit.
… ah, unless you mean that they may have made the determination purely visually. Now that would be strange – hm, I really have to found out what they meant!
Anyway, as far as the D5 tape, the raw footage is telecine at 10-bit.
Not obscure, just make sure the project is in 16bit, and render out trillions of colors(although trillions doesn’t make much difference as it’s beyond 10bit, but I do it anyway). Shouldn’t be too hard, but if you didn’t set the project to 16 bit, then you are rendering 8 bit and compressing it to a 10bit codec, so essentially, it is 8 bit.
No, actually I think it is more than that 🙁 … see these:
“AE reads ProRes in 8bit rather than 10bit. Same with shake.” (and there is also this from google.)
Mmm could be, hard to know without knowing what they did. What triggered the film out place to say your movie was 8bit is my question? What were they looking at?
Yeah, you got that right. I haven’t been able to speak to the ones in the trenches who were actually hands on, so I don’t know. Hence my speculation that they may have been using AFter Effects (or Shake), any program that did not treat the ProRes appropriately.
Thanks hugely for thinking this through with me! If I find out how they determined that it was 8-bit, I’ll let you know here!!!
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