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Insert Edit to Tape FCP and Sony DVCAM DSR25 deck
Insert Edit to Tape FCP and Sony DVCAM DSR25 deck
The Goal: Insert edit video (EDIT TO TAPE) from FCP to an exact pre-determined time code on the tape.
The problem: Did not frame accurately insert video. 3 seconds off.
This is the overall sequence of events I tried to lay video from FCP to the video deck:
1. Pre-stripe the video tape with the timecode you want according to manual instructions, then set it to REGENERATE TC.
2. In FCP, choose EDIT TO TAPE, then a window will pop up.
3. Set your IN point in the pop up EDIT TO TAPE window. (This is the IN point on the tape, not the video clip.)
4. Set your IN point on the video clip from the Bin (NOT from the timeline).
5. Drag the video clip over the popped up window, and drop it on the ASSEMBLE icon (even though it says ASSEMBLE, it’s not an assemble edit because it’s in EDIT TO TAPE mode).
6. Follow the instructions on the pop-up window.
7. It SHOULD go to the timecode. But instead, it was about 3 seconds off. Don’t know why.Anyone have any knowledge about this? Thank you!
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9 Replies
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you can’t do an insert edit on a DSR-25.
You can’t do an insert on a Sony DSR-45.
These VTR’s do not have flying erase heads.
You have to have a DSR-1800, or DSR-2000.While I am at it,
you can’t do an insert edit on a Panasonic AJ-HD1200A
you can’t do an insert edit on a Sony HDW-S280Does it seem unfair that you have to have the “expensive” versions to do an insert edit – YOU BET it does seem unfair.
There are plenty of other “unfair” things with Sony. You can’t do a 2:3 pulldown with a HDW-S280 or HDW-M2000 (and there are no option cards to purchase – you need the more expensive models). UNFAIR.
Bob Zelin
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I really appreciate your quick response. Your answer does conflict with the Sony manual. I’m not challenging you or anything like that. I just want to stop searching for the answer because it’s driving me mad! This is a work related issue, otherwise I’d drop it.
Do you know where I can verify your answer? Experience, or is there some reference I can access? Thanks again!
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Outputting via Firewire? Then not possible. ONLY possible if you output component or SDI and have RS422 deck control. Firewire is not frame accurate on output. There was a way to do this back years ago using SimpleVideoOut…a developer application. But it no longer works with Tiger or Leopard.
Oh, and that only worked when doing an ASSEMBLE edit…and you still needed to black the first couple minutes of the tape. But Insert never worked, only Assemble.
Does the SOny manual actually claim this works via firewire? I’d like to see that!
Here’s the OLD way to do it that worked…FYI:
#32 – Timeline Timecode to a DSR-11
Shane’s Stock Answer #32 – Outputting Timecode to a DSR-11 DVCAM Deck
Since FCP 4 we have been unable to stripe a new TC such as 00:58:00:00 or 01:58:00:00 to a DVCAM tape with the DSR-11. NO MORE!! I think I found a solution.
Get SimpleVideoOut from the Apple (its free):
https://developer.apple.com/samplecode/SimpleVideoOut/SimpleVideoOut.html
Then create a QT Movie in FCP or Xpress Pro from a sequence which has the starting TC you want on the tape. I just tried it with 00:58:00:00. In the timeline, I just put Bars & Tone for 90 seconds and a black slug for 45 (to take me over 01:00:00:00). You could create a sequence with whatever combination you wanted with the TC set to start at whatever timecode you need for your choice. But the Timeline TC MUST be set to your desired starting code. The exported QT file will have this TC in it.
Then load this DV QT movie into SimpleVideoOut (having selecting Firewire / Apple Firewire PAL or NTSC when you open the app).
Now load a fresh DVCAM tape and set your DSR-11 to:
REC MODE = DVCAM
DV IN TC = EXTERNAL(Have the TC display turned on for this first test so you can verify it has worked.)
Then just hold the REC and PLAY buttons together on the DSR-11 and press play in the SimpleVideoOut app and the new TC will be recorded to your DVCAM tape. Hey presto you are now able to stripe a tape with what ever timecode you want using a DSR-11.
Remember to turn ‘DV IN TC’ back to INTERNAL on the DSR-11 when you come to record your edit to tape.
The problem with the DSR-11 is that it is not the best deck and starting recording at the exact TC, but playing with the pre-rolls should eventually get it spot on. I have had some success with FCP’s ‘Edit to Tape’ and very good results with Avid Xpress Pro after a few tweaks.
Also, if you just had a black QT file, you can change the starting TC to suite the tape; i.e. 00:58:00:00 or 02:58:00:00 etc without going back into FCP or Xpress Pro and rendering out another QT. To do this, just use Sebsky Tools to alter the starting TC of the file.
https://www.dharmafilm.com/sebskytools/Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
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For those of you whom are interested I ‘tried everything and got to the bottom of’ this issue and this is what I found:
Shane’s method (which can also be done by setting preset TC on the deck and striping TC that way) still results in the final product on tape being out by 1 frame (which is fine).
Simple Video OUT can be used to output a frame accurate version of your cut onto tape, but only supports specific formats (it would not for example support 16:9 PAL). I could find no other APP for MAC that can do this. Simple VO does work on Leopard.
Sony Vegas (on PC) can output to tape frame accurately, tested it twice on different cuts on the DSR 25 without RS422 control. I also tried Premiere CS3 but this was out by far more than a few frames!
Another method for getting it frame accurate would be to play from the timeline with the preview on DV device swithced on in FCP and try to hit the spacebar / play button at just the right time, but most people wouldn’t succeed.
Conclusion:
1. I would love to hear the official excuse as to why FCP cannot output assembly to tape on a non RS422 controlled device frame accurately, the ‘its too cheap’ excuse is clearly not valid as both Simple Video Out and Sony Vegas do this job perfectly. That said I still love final cut better than any other NLE.
2. Only working alternatives is outputting through Sony Vegas or Simple Video Out.Have a fantabulous day
Caffeinecuttingcrunching, digging data pits and building puzzles with timecodes.
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[Jan Joubert] “…still results in the final product on tape being out by 1 frame…”
Hi
Not my experience – I get spot-on Assemble edit results every time, with both a DSR-25 and a DSR-11 deck.
But as I explained. I don’t ever put the edit anywhere near the programme media. -
‘terminology / colloquialism’
when you say ‘edit near the programme media’ what is what you refer to a preroll (striped on tape) before your bars / counters?I started / striped the tape from 23:59:10:00 , it clocks over to 00:00:00:00 at 24:00:00:00.
at this point I start a 2 minute bars / caption / counter / etc sequence with my edit starting at 00:02:00:00
are we on the same page here?
… or maybe do you mean that you only start striping timecode on the tape (even if its 23:59:10:00 or 00:59:10:00 or whatever with intention of starting at 00:00:00:00 or 01:00:00:00) after playing 45 seconds into the timecodeless new tape?
Caffeinecuttingcrunching, digging data pits and building puzzles with timecodes.
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Hi
I stripe from the beginning of the tape, and do the assemble edit about 30 secs into the tape, normally at 00:58:20:00.You may understand that 23:59:59:00 + 1 sec rolls over to 00:00:00:00, but I don’t chance it that the edit-control automation software does…
My caution is born of 16 years experience doing this NLE sort of thing, and of identifying problem points… 😉 -
Howzit Paul,
mmm ok I’ll try it at 0:59:10:00 instead of 23:59:10:00 … that may be the reason
not questioning your experience mate just observing the reality
😉thanks alot!
Caffeinecuttingcrunching, digging data pits and building puzzles with timecodes.
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