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Frame Rate Questions: Video & Audio
Hello. I need help! And I apologize if I am over detailed.
I was brought onto a project after production and the information I am getting from the DP is not always accurate. So figuring out the native frame has proven to be difficult.
What I know:
It was shot P2, HVX200. The DP claims it was shot at 720p 24p and the frame rate was 29.97. He also says that is what the sound was recorded at. (probably not true)I have been editing in a 60fps sequence – and my audio/video is currently in sync. I am now ready to turnover the edit to sound, vfx, colorist, etc. And I want to be sure what I hand over is at the best frame rate to make sure things stay in sync.
Here are the specs via FCP Item Properties for my video:
Vid Rate: 59.94fps
Frame Size: 960×720
Compressor: DVCPRO HD 720p60p
Pixel Aspect: HD (960×720)When transferring the original P2 media through Log & Transfer -They were unable to enable the option to remove duplicate frames. Therefore, I was left with 59.94 media.
Audio:
The audio was already imported into the project when I began. They are at 30fps. As I was syncing I was missing a few files. The director sent them me them from the original sound discs. They came in at 24fps. I am only noticing this now as I am trying to figure out the delivery.Any idea if I need to convert the footage to 23.98? 24? Is there a frame rate that will automatically remove the added frames from 59.94?
How will I be sure my OMF will be in sync? Do I need to convert my audio with mixed frame rates?
They plan to deliver to HDCAM SR and possibly Blu-Ray.
So much to figure out and so many numbers has me confused. Please help if you can.
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8 Replies
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If you select a clip in the BIN, try to go to TOOLS-remove advanced pulldown. This could do it if the L&T didn’t. See if it is accessible and if it removes the pulldown. You clip should then be listed as 23.98…if it was shot in 24p.
Mathieu Marano
online editor – motion graphics – Post-prod director
Directeur technique de post-production
Le Bureau de post productionAdministrator of the Montreal Final Cut User Group
http://www.finalcutmtl.org -
Mathieu,
Thanks for the reply!
I went in and tried to remove the advanced pull down and I got the error: File does not contain DVCPRO, DVCPRO-HD or DVCPRO-50 NTSC VIDEO.
I also tried the DVCPRO HD Frame Rate Converter. Settings at 23.98fps, remove duplicate frames, make self contained file. It seemed to be working and then I got the error: An Error occured during processing, unable to conform source media.
Do you think maybe something is wrong with my original P2 footage? Maybe it was not shot at 24P?
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FCP and QT will accurately report the frame rate that the video was shot at. If it was shot at 24 over 60, like varicam footage, then you edited the footage correctly. If it was shot at 24PN (native 24P), then you have a lot of work to do to fix the problem & reconform.
The manual for the HVX explains the various 24P settings on the camera (I think there are 8 or 9 different options).
Arnie
Post production is not an afterthought!
https://www.arniepix.com/ -
[Kayla Emter] “The DP claims it was shot at 720p 24p and the frame rate was 29.97.”
That camera doesn’t shoot 720p at 29.97…only 1080i. 720p is always recorded at 59.94, unless you shoot 24PN in which case it records only 24fps at 23.98. If you shot normal 24p, then it recorded a “film like look” at 59.94. But that, AFAIK, cannot be reverse telecined. Only 29.97 can be reverse telecined to 23.98. 59.94 is a different beast.
If he shot 24p at 59.94, then you might try Compressor on ALL of your footage to get it to 23.98. Do one as a test…choose the Advanced Conversion option, DVCPRO HD 720p24…and see what it does. If it looks good, do the rest. If not, then you are stuck editing 59.94. The only problem with that is the amount of hard drive it takes up.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Thank you so much everyone!
A lot of the information given seems correct for my situation. I am almost certain they shot 24p for the filmic look at 59.94. It was no problem to edit with – and I have picture locked. We got that figured out!
Now, is there a benefit to “down convert” to a lower frame rate to streamline the process of delivering to sound, colorist, etc.? Is it more difficult to make DVD’s or lay off to HDCAM SR at a higher frame rate?
What should my audio frame rate be at in my sequence to create a successful OMF that will sync with my picture?
Thank you very much for you help. I am starting to feel more grounded in the journey ahead.
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Shane, buddy I don’t know what I’d do with out you. I was thinking hmmm.. I shot HD 720 24p thinking that Id get a frame rate of 23.98 on my time line in FCP.. No, No , The time line is at 59.94 So I’m editing in 59.94… Ok, wait I set my camera to 720 24p over 60 ..? I use a hvx .200.. It’s looks great and no one has said anything to me on the frame rate.. I would like to have 23.98 as the time line and your compressor Idea works.. But what are your thoughts on look? so, I shot 720 24p over 60 ?? According to your post… It’s a different beast? I didn’t shoot at 720 24PN although I have and the Hvx shows on the LCD 24:24 my 16 GB p2 shoots from 16 min to 40 min ..I remember shooting this and finding that the audio eventually fell out of sync. I was hoping you could wave your hand and tell me what the heck to do… WHat should I set my camera to so that when I ingest final cuts time line is 23.98 I just shot a kids movie thinking it’s at 23.94….. No, No it’s 59.94 even though i set it 2 720 24 p ……
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Ok Well .. To answer my own question.. and ask myself another one… I know you have to set it to 720 pn to get 23.98 material.(hvx 200). Ok Ok … I didn’t shoot pn ..I shot 720 24p/60 but can’t final cut remove frames?.. When I ingested My 720 24 p material it gave me 59.94 material .. I want to ingest it so it 23.98 .. I’ve tried my settings in the log and transfer(advance pull down) but the footage comes out with the audio out of sync… Can any one help.?… I know I can convert it 59.94 material in compressor to 23.98 but shouldn’t I be able to ingest the footage 23.98 ? So when I bring it to the open the time line it’s 23.98
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[brent curran] “I shot 720 24p/60 but can’t final cut remove frames?”
Well, you can try the DVCPRO HD Frame Rate Converter in the TOOLS menu. Choose the REMOVE PULLDOWN option.
[brent curran] “When I ingested My 720 24 p material it gave me 59.94 material .. I want to ingest it so it 23.98”
YOu can’t import it and remove frames. You have to try to do it AFTER you import. I use that option to make 720p60 into 23.98 slow motion, but I know there is a remove pulldown option.
[brent curran] “shouldn’t I be able to ingest the footage 23.98 ? “
Not when it isn’t designed to removed. If you wanted 23.98, there was a shooting option for it. But, I understand that you might not have realized that.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def
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