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Suggestions for subtitles/translation workflow for FCS2 via web collab
just wanting to check to see what the latest approach folks here are using for working adding subtitles to clips/sequences in final cut pro 6.0.3.
My scenario is a little unusual:
• I don’t actually speak the spoken language of the film I am editing. (Though I wrote the English screenplay it was based on and, thank goodness, there really isn’t THAT much dialogue!)
• The director isn’t located in the same facility as me.
• Editorial is just starting, far from final sequences for conforming traditional plugins or generated Text clips.Traditional tools are focused on getting the subtitle deliverables for a sequence you are exporting. We are far from that far into formal editing. I want to associate subtitles to clips rather than timelines for maximum flexibility.
Am thinking of the following:
STAGE ONE: PREP
* Export tiny PhotoJPGs of selects sequences (better frame accuracy that H.264 for shuttling back and forth)
* Upload QT file onto server
* Add clip into folder in Project file to ready for “roundtrip” seqSTAGE TWO: TRANSLATION
* Director downloads QT and opens in FCP
* Director creates markers for subtitles (or uses plugin) for “first pass” for english subs (Should marker be on seq or clip? am debating)
* Director exports XML of sequence and sends to meSTAGE THREE: EDITING
* Editor imports XML file and reconnects clips as needed
• Editor adds markers to online clips
• Editor edits files into final sequence, with markers present in clips
* Editor generates titles based on markers using tools like Digital Heaven’s DH_Subtitles to maintain placement and style across all production reelsSTAGE FOUR: REVISION
• Editor and director revise subtitles for tone and clarity and exportI know there are more expensive ways to do parts of this process, but I can’t figure out how to make this process easier. Suggestions?
Matt
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14 Replies
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Matt,
If i understand it right, my subtitle prep tool can do this.
It can output FCP compliant XML, and comes with a very decent text generator (that is free, btw…)
download a trial from
https://www.videotoolshed.com/?page=products&pID=12
Perhaps you need a little aid of Spherico when it gets in thefinal stage.Contact me direct if you like to discuss any custom work you might want to have done. You can reach me at bouke@videotoolshed.com
(i can think of a few options to streamline the entire process)Bouke
http://www.videoToolShed.com
smart tools for video pro’s -
not sure if this would help or hinder, but I have a freebie text filter that can be applied to a clip rather than a generator that is applied to a sequence
its possible it may be useful to you as you’re trying to associate the titles to clips rather than timelines. you can grab it from https://web.mac.com/andymees
possible workflow would be as above except director downloads clips, opens in FCP and adds subs as needed, then saves, zips and sends you his project file. you then open the project and reconnect.
when the cut is locked you can prep final subs using whatever tools / plugs /method that you see fit
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This does sounds like a good option — especially to get me through the editorial process before fussing with subtitle appearance issues.
Thanks!
Matt -
Thanks for the recommendation. Am taking a look at your solution this morning!
Matt -
As Matthew mailed me about the question/problem I thought the answer might be interesting for others as well.
For this approach the low-res file should come with a sequence XML as. The sequence contains the low-res file.
Now the director can set the translation markers at sequence level. Then save as XML and send back.
At the edit station this sequence is loaded and the sequence settings are changed to “online” settings, and the actual clips will dragged into this sequence.
Now the big problem is to shuffle information from the sequence to many clips (the actual clips of the select). This must be done manually by creating new markers and copy the info from the sequence markers. An app to do this automatically can be done.
You could also use Andy’s filter to apply the text info to portions of the clip.Here some other approaches, but it depends on how “log & capture” is done.
If it is done “clip by clip” You can export all clips used in the “selects” sequence to low res and then add the original timecode and reel again. Then create an “offline” duplicate of the “selects” sequence with those low res files. Upload this along with the files.If it is done “as whole tape” export the whole tape as low res and proceed as above. This has the advantage that TC is easier to handle.
The director can make the translation to clip markers.
At the edit station now the “offline” sequence can be opened, modified to the online settings and the original stuff can be re-connected.Another one which also requires a whole tape would be using Bouke’s SubBits by the director with the offline tape. The “.ebs” file then can be converted to an XML which applies the titles as markers to the tape. An app to do this can be easily done.
After a tape is processed it can MMd for editing.
At the final stage (while working with markers) one of my XML tools can be used to export those markers to a STL text file, if the marker/title duration is already set. This list can be imported into TitleExchange to convert it to timed text generators in a sequence.
In case title duration is not set, the markers can be “lifted” to sequence level and then an XML can be used with my TitleExchange app, which can do some automatic timing and create the generators from there. TitleExchange can virtually use any text generator (except Boris) so you got the freedom. It also allows to change quickly all generators (or settings) in a sequence with just two clicks.
An option for “non timed” markers is again Bouke’s SubBits which can import the STL and allows to change the timing easily.There are other, faster and better ways, but they would require to write a program – and that’s normally a bit more expensive.
Andreas
Spherico
https://www.spherico.com/filmtools -
Forget most of the previous post:)
Here how to do:
Create a low-res out of your sequence. Import that into your project and add that as track 2 to the sequence.
Now export as XML and upload the movie along with the XML.
The director now reconnects the low res file and adds the markers to the offline clips. When done, he sends back a XML export of this sequence.
“Back home” the XML will be imported and clips are reconnected (their file path might got lost with the second XML export).
From there happy editing.
At the end there will be the same procedure as described above.Andreas
Spherico
https://www.spherico.com/filmtools -
any special reason you’d want to jump through the xml hoops in that last suggested workflow rather than sending the project file?
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I really like this last idea. I noticed somewhere else someone used a trick to copy all of the markers to the various angles of a multitrack clip by marking one, duplicating it the number of times for the other angles, and then Replacing the duplicates with the other angles.
This has the advantage of ensuring that there are no TC change issues that send the markers whizzing around within the clips.
Then, with the reconnected clips back in my sequence, ready to be copy/pasted from the selects sequences into the editorial sequences, I will have the translations I need as clip markers and won’t have to render all the time.
So all that remains is choosing the best of the solutions for going from Markers to a subtitle generation software — I am testing SubBits and would love to look at your XML routes, AnnotationEdit, BelleNuit, and a few more options to pick what works best.
Has anyone had experience going from Clip Markers to subs? Obviously, Andreas has the XML chops to get what he needs from metadata, but I’m not sure markers is the usual route.
I tried to give the demo of Traffic a go but … haven’t had time to figure it out. Pretty cool, though.
And the additional great thing about using your suggestion, Andreas, is that the director can also mark other notes on the lowres clip making this for a great method to exchange both annotations and translations without creating extra work for anyone.
I am going to test and report back here.
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Andy,
Well, the reason I’m experimenting with the XML routes are the possibilities of using a tool other than FCP in the mix for the director to translate. And he is running 6.0.1 or 6.0.2 rather than 6.0.3 like I am.But mainly the issue is that there is a LOT of footage and I’ll only have selects ready a few at a time. So the 1 XML to 1 sequence seems like a canny workflow. It just seemed clearer.
Well….
Actually, that’s still not a reason not to send a series of FCP project files, particularly if I prep them like Andreas suggests. I’ll admit that I’m very curious about the XML elements and want to learn more about it — a lean XML file archived with a lowres video clip seems somehow more “elegant”
So you know what? I’ll do both: xml export-then-import and new FCP seq per selects sequence — Andreas’ double-tracks as way to work.
Have you tried something that works better?
I’m appreciative that you have kicked in an option that cuts out all extra software before building the final titles — like a paired-coding, someone reminding me that there is a clearer, tighter way to do things.
Matt
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Hi Andy,
As I don’t know how big the project might get, a XML is the easier solution.
You can also just modify the “updatebehaviour” to “replaceoradd” if you keep track of the UUIDs.Regards
AndreasSpherico
https://www.spherico.com/filmtools
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