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HVX200 luminance values
We were running some tests yesterday with the HVX200 and noticed some significant and disturbing luminance discrepancies between what we were seeing on the camera end and what we were seeing inside FCP. In the camera zebras were set at 70% and 80%. When set to 80% we were seeing zebra in the camera viewscreen in highlight areas on a bald, aging white guy
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18 Replies
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Did you have any of this gear hooked up to an external waveform?
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While we were shooting? No. It’s not really practical for the type of production we do.
All the best,
Tom
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 2 Editing Workshop” Class on Demand “Complete Training for FCP5” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy” DVDs
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Is that really that outlandish of a question? Panasonic monitors come with waveform built in, so I was just checking. We have one and use it constantly while on the shoot, yes on the shoot. It’s extremely practical. It’s hard to judge what you are trying to compare without an external waveform of some sort. You are comparing an in camera zebra to an FCP waveform. While zebras get you in the ballpark, they are no means substitute for a waveform that is consistent and precise. Same with FCPs scopes. While they are now updated in 5.1.2, I still wouldn’t really trust their accuracy. What format are you working in and perhaps this was a video level ire setup issue? What are using to monitor and what color space are you monitoring?
Jeremy
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Thank you, but I know the benefit of scopes. I’ve been using them for some time.
Are you are user of this camera?
Zebras are NOT supposed to be ballpark. There are a direct reflection of the luminance value generated by the camera processor.
We’re working in DVCPRO HD 720p30pn. We’ve looking at the viewscreen and Marshall HD monitor. We’re looking the material inside FCP, on the FCP screen using the FCP scopes.
I’m trying to find out where the inaccuracy might lie and if others are seeing similar inaccuracies.
All the best,
Tom
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 2 Editing Workshop” Class on Demand “Complete Training for FCP5” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy” DVDs
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Yep. I am a user and I am not seeing the inaccuracies, but the only difference between you and me is that I use an external waveform on the BT-LH900A. A camera will tell you when you’ve hit 70 ire, but it won’t tell you much you’ve gone over. We both know all this stuff.
Frankly, I find the LCD viewscreen on HVX to suck in terms of it’s color and overall accuracy, but I would expect that from this camera. Can’t have it all for 6 grand.
Another thing i wanted to ask is where you P2 disenchantment comes from? i understand it takes some getting used to but once it’s figured out, it’s quite nice.
Also the scopes in FCP are sometimes hard to see the very fine details of the top level of a white point. Sometimes you really have to squint or blow up the waveform or turn up the brightness. They can be faint.
Jeremy
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Tom,
I know this sounds silly BUT if you have a PC laptop just lying around or have access to, you could purchase HDV Rack and connect the camera via firewire to your PC and use it for all of your field monitoring. I think most on the Cows are using the Panasonic BT-LH1700W in the field for monitoring and waveform monitoring. You sound like me and would prefer something a little more beefy, that’s why I mentioned HDV Rack.
https://www.seriousmagic.com/products/dvrack/
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Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com -
I saw your post on the P2 forum, and I notice that you said you didn’t have much success and you should have known better?
I am trying to help you. I do not see what you are seeing and you are asking yourself to compare two totally different pieces of hardware without a common measuring device. You say you know that benefits a waveform. If you do, use one that’s trustworthy. FCP scopes are not, even though they are much better than they used to be. You have not mentioned how you are monitoring out of FCP, or even what kind of monitor you have hooked up to it as well as a capturing device. You have not mentioned what ire setup you monitored on site and in the studio and color space your monitor or your capture card is sending or set up for, for that matter. I should have known better to try and help someone who doesn’t give the whole story, but prefers to be pissed off at the situation and takes it out on the whole FCP forum. I f*ck up all the time, I want to blame the gear each and every time you know why? Because it’s easy to blame the gear. But 90% of the time it is me that made the mistake or overlooked a setting/switch/workflow anomaly. You can’t pick up a new piece of technology, turn it on and say “this is busted because I am looking what I didn’t expect to happen” when you haven’t checked yourself along the way.
Let’s talk through this.
Jeremy
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I tried the HDV Rack. It did not recognize the camera.
All the best,
Tom
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 2 Editing Workshop” Class on Demand “Complete Training for FCP5” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy” DVDs
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“A camera will tell you when you’ve hit 70 ire, but it won’t tell you much you’ve gone over.”
I don’t know what that means. Do you mean the zebra only shows exactly 70 units (assuming you’ve set 70 for zebra), but doesn’t shows values beyond that as zebra? That would be crazy. Surely the camera does not work like that.
I don’t want to go into the workflow issue here, but we’re not happy with it for a number of reasons, primarily to do with archiving and workflow in the field with a small crew, limited time, and fast shooting on four cards.
So basically you’re not seeing the discrepancy I’m seeing.
All the best,
Tom
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 2 Editing Workshop” Class on Demand “Complete Training for FCP5” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy” DVDs
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The common measuring device is the unit of measurement for luminance. I don’t have to use the same ruler to measure a foot. All rulers are supposed to measure one foot the same. If FCP scopes are not considered trustworthy then what’s the frakin’ point of having them. On what basis do you say this?
You talk about IRE in one of your messages. IRE is an absolute unit of measure. The FCP IRE cannot be different from the Panasonic IRE. It’s like saying a meter is Paris is different from one in Tokyo. That would be absurd.
I’m not hooked up to an external device. I’m looking a the FCP scopes.
“your capture card”
What are you talking about?
There is no capture device. This is P2 media. It’s a data transfer, converted from P2 to QuickTIme by FCP. Talking about capturing is ridiculous. The “capture” device is either a G4 laptop cardbus slot, or the camera itself, which by the way is dog slow.
All the best,
Tom
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 2 Editing Workshop” Class on Demand “Complete Training for FCP5” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy” DVDs
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