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DVCPRO HD Question
So, over my many projects of working with DVCPRO HD I have come to the conclusion (based on reading many posts here) that it does not matter whether I bring in DVCPRO HD footage over firewire and then render on a 10bit timeline at the end or if I connect the deck SDI and bring all the footage in at 10bit. This is my conclusion, though there does often seem to be some arugment over this. Anyhow, I brought in the current green screen footage in over firewire, have edited and now want to send the shots out for roto and compositing. Should I just export my cut from the DVCPRO HD timeline as a 10bit movie, or should I first bring my cut onto a 10bit timeline, render, and then export? Anyone know if there is an advantage to one method over the other? I notice that when I bring my clips onto a 10bit timeline and then check their properties in the motion tab they are all scaled to 133.33. Is this because of the way FCP interprets this format as 960×720 (which still kinda boggles my mind…as every other program reads it as 1280×720)?
Thanks,
Eli MavrosEli Mavros
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11 Replies
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DVCProHD is 960×720 size with some sort of dct compression.
It is NOT full raster 1280×720.
Thats part of the reason why it works over firewire without any more special equipment.
Ideally you would do everything at 10-bit full raster beyond the initial capture stage. So don’t compress to DVCPRO HD again if you an avoid it.
I prefer to work in full raster at all times regardless if I’m capturing HDCAM or BetaSP.
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[Eli Mavros] “Is this because of the way FCP interprets this format as 960×720 (which still kinda boggles my mind…as every other program reads it as 1280×720)?”
It’s not interpreting the footage as 960×720, the footage IS 960×720. This is how DVCPro HD shoots, in a slightly anamorphic format, similar to what HDV does. The footage is automatically scaled out to 1280×720 by FCP in real-time.
FWIW, I never bother with 10bit anything for DVCPro HD. We capture via Firewire to DVCPro HD and stay in DVCPro HD through graphics, effects and Color Correction and master back out to HDCAM from our DVCPro HD timeline. The networks have been telling us it’s some of the best looking HD they’re receiving.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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Thanks for the responses guys. I must say, if this was all just up to me, I would probably just work native DVCPROHD…but I find my graphics co-workers seem to be a little scared of the format. I personally really like it quite a bit and can’t discern the difference between that and other HD footage that I have seen.
Thanks Again,
Eli Mavros -
Then what are they scared of?
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DVCPRO HD is not good for doing graphics. VERY compressed codec. Graphics guys prefer uncompressed HD codecs.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
[Shane Ross] “DVCPRO HD is not good for doing graphics. VERY compressed codec. Graphics guys prefer uncompressed HD codecs.”
You’re kidding right? DVCPro HD produces pristine graphics here and in fact, that was one of the deciding factors in staying with that codec all through post. We produce heavily composited animation in After Effects with camera moves all over the place, 200 layers of material and everything is pristine. I created 52 layer photoshop files for every episode and everything is pristine.
If your DVCPro HD graphics are looking heavily compressed, something is wrong. They’re every bit as clean as 8bit uncompressed and if they weren’t, the network would have flagged our shows a long time ago.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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[Eli Mavros] “I must say, if this was all just up to me, I would probably just work native DVCPROHD…but I find my graphics co-workers seem to be a little scared of the format.”
Tell them to create two sets of identical graphics. One for DVCPro HD and one in Uncompressed HD. Tell them to spot the differences.
The only thing you need to know with DVCPro HD as far as Photoshop is concerned is to ensure that the final graphics are 960×720 anamorphic so that all your graphics line up in the correct place and nothing appears out of scale. What we do here is create the graphics 1280×720 (for a 720p timeline) and when we’re done, we simply change the Image Size to 960×720. This puts an anamporphic squeeze on the graphic to match the DVCPro HD footage. When you place the graphic in the timeline, FCP stretches it back out to 1280.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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I am not kidding…my graphics guys scoff at that codec. One even pointed out the compression. OF COURSE there’s compression. But he is a stickler for quality, so he captures the footage via firewire (or he takes my captures) and upconverts them to 10-bit uncompressed HD for compositing. I myself have had very little problem compositing with that codec. It is when they give me 3-4 different shades of green, and visible c-stands with billowing smoke that I start having an issue.
Keying DVCPRO HD can be tricky too. You need to create a hold out matte for it to work nicely.
I still like this format…very much.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
[Shane Ross] “I am not kidding…my graphics guys scoff at that codec. One even pointed out the compression. OF COURSE there’s compression.”
That’s amazing. We’ve had one network want to know what our workflow is because it’s the best HD they’ve seen delivered.
[Shane Ross] “But he is a stickler for quality, so he captures the footage via firewire (or he takes my captures) and upconverts them to 10-bit uncompressed HD for compositing.”
That makes zero sense to me. Either capture 10bit uncompressed and work in 10bit or capture DVCPro HD and work in that.
I’ve gone through the DVCPro HD vs. 10bit argument so many times it’s just funny. I find that the more expensive the suite or the more expensive per hour the person, the more they try to convince everyone that 10bit is a must for absolutely everything they do.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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[walter biscardi] “Tell them to create two sets of identical graphics. One for DVCPro HD and one in Uncompressed HD. Tell them to spot the difference”
If they can’t tell the difference on a broadcast monitor then they aren’t worth a hill of beans. Then again, our network engineer needed us to label footage that we shot with the Varicam and HVX that we sent for QC. I could tell the difference right away.
I can COMPLETELY tell the difference between my open title graphic rendered out DVCPRO HD and as 10-bit. Even 8-bit uncompressed is an improvement.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net
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