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extreme choppy laggy stuttery sputtery jittery preview playback on native .mts multicam edit
if you also apply these effects to every clip in project:
1. 3way color correction to both cameras in timeline
2. color match one camera to the other via a popular plugin
3. use ‘motion’ fx to shift x/y position of frame, scale/zoom to 110%, level image by .5 degree re ‘rotation’
4. lumetri desaturation or b/w effect*i didnt know about adjustment layers until now but putting the 3way cc on one layer and lumetri on another should give me control back to be able to make any final tweaks to the multicam edit
the problem appears to be cross-platform and transcends hardware/driver configurations and is re-occurring across years and versions for people editing native AVCHD files.
adobe claims ppcc can handle every file format without issue, but this is not accurate if “editing” almost always includes at least two cameras, color matching them, correcting both, and cropping the x/y frame to mildly reframe both camera angles in the timeline. these crippled my multicam .mts edit and ppcc14 project file.
my multicam edit performed great until i started adding video effects which is when i started noticing playback issues creep in. the issue compounded with every new effect layer and plugin added. it was manageable at first, then sputtered more, and finally was impossible to playback at 1/4 resolution and 10% size etc.
–project–
native AVCHD .mts multicam edit of a 1.5hr dance show shot from two angles by canon and sony, each 5min dance rendered individually–configurations–
the same exact thing occurred on two separate i7 multicore win 8.1 machines that exceed minimum reqs (as outlined below, ppcc, not the system, proved to be the key/root source of the issue)–working theory–
editing AVCHD .mts native files in most prosumer NLEs, and in every version of ppcc incl the most recent, is known to still pose playback problems, to a degree adobe should warn users multicam .mts editing if color correcting/matching can reach a breaking point where playback will no longer be smooth and the project can become uneditable until you figure out how to bloat the project file by applying all effects onto adjustment layers to enable turning them “on” to render, “off” to edit.mid-project is not the time for average joe to find out the hardway, that ppcc14 can’t handle the .mts job. adobe should outline easy to follow steps to be able to transform a troubled project quickly and easily or avoid it. seasoned folks know all about AVCHD and to take steps to avoid/navigate this playback issue. they likely know the steps to rescue an existing project in midstream, yet these were hard to find and so many consumers who buy fancy AVCHD cameras are so easily caught in this abyss that only pros know how to circumnavigate.
my working theory is that my project file got progressively slower as i got further into the video effects process, and with two levels of color corrections reached a “breakpoint’ where ppcc14 can no longer handle .mts project playback in real-time at any size/resolution forcing me and all projects in the que to a dead stop.
–proof of concept–
to just finish this project, i need to figure out the issue to best get around it, so when i noticed the one track with the least flicker was a dance number that only had one camera angle on it aka had no multicam switching, i chose to try two things in this order:i first tried deleting the first 1/2 of show out of the project in both source and nested timelines but that did not change result.
then i tried removing all effects from the entire project point blank incl. all video and audio effects per “delete effects…” and viola, instant significant smoother playback to the multicam restored.
–summary–
so multicam/nested .mts editing of a 1.5hr show (in 5min segments) + TWCC + RE:match plugin (used in every clip deep into a 1.5hr show), one element or some combination, appears to be the cause of the problem.adobe should really warn users .mts editing is not without playback issues for multicamera shows aka it’ll work fine until you add color corrections, effects and plugins to all clips at which piont the project may well hit a breakingpoint, at first progressively, later crash and choke, and ultimately no longer playback smoothly. the only option at that point is to do what most pro’s likely know to do: do not trust that .mts eidting with video effects has not yet arrived, and have a strategy/plan to circumvent that fundamental issue. its not talked about enough.
this is either consistently true or true only for projects that were upgraded from 7.x to 8.x as i saw outlined on the adobe forums. adobe wont allow me to 100% cleanse the neatvideo plugin from the project so i have reason to still consider active references to it as suspect.
–next steps–
for this project, i need to take the time to create an adjustment layer and move all my “3way color corrections” onto it so that i can switch it on/off easily aka “off” to multicam edit, “on” to render. create a 2nd adjustment layer to switch the ‘camera matching’ plugin fx “on/off’ and a 3rd layer to control the lumetri effect.why ppcc has no simple ‘global effects’ on/off switch like other NLE’s (i.e. vegas) that allows all users to easily manage and finish existing projects vs needing to bloat files with layers, makes no sense at all.
i’m posting my hardway educational experience, but welcome any tips on how best to proceed i.e. cutting the first half of show out of the project file did nothing to improve playback.
–other alternatives–
credited as coming from “creativecow” as well as allegedly being an official adobe suggestion: simply change the video file extension from .mts to .m2ts, or .mov to .mpg and enough claim success with it. i tried this using file explorer but ever since, i cant get that project file (or any other) opened on that machine’s ppccthe next option is to convert .mts to a high-bitrate MPEG2 file and do one of two things a) edit and render with it or b) edit only with it, then to render, trick the NLE to remap the project back to the original .mts files for rendering only. how? i’ve not done it yet, but the trick is that you edit with the low res files, close ppcc when ready to render, “move those files” out of their location confusing ppcc, then relink the project to the original native .mts files
for future multicam projects editors might consider Vegas with its ‘global effects’ on/off switch users can toggle on/off or for a pro NLE that can truly handle native .mts editing there is edius neo2 w/ AVCHD Booster for Real-Time AVCHD editing.
–other–
*only other factor in equation was the install of neatvideo plugin. i’m no longer using it, but ppcc wont let me remove it so project still tries to load the filter (and who knows what else) -
6 Replies
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Sorry to hear you had such a crazy time with all that. I just finished a 90 minute multicam of a product demo/launch that was shot with 2 XA10’s and didn’t have any problems. The shots were simple though-one medium-wide following the presenter and one close-up of the product table as things were pointed out and demoed. One thing I did do for color though was I exported about 3 seconds of each roll and colored and matched them in Speedgrade. That way each clip had just on Lumetri effect on it. I did have to blow up the product/demo footage as it was just too loose at times. I ended up outputting it in 3 segments, but I cut it all on one timeline.
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there was a 4th ‘lumetri’ video effect so a bit going on but i’d say typical.
my next rescue steps are to create adjustment layers so that i can turn effects “off” to playback or tweak an edit/cut/synch or “on” to render. i’ll move my “3way color corrections” to layer #1 so i can easily enable/disable it for that camera, then to enable/disable the ‘camera matching’ plugin fx i’ll move it to layer #2 and to enable/disable the lumetri effect i’ll use a 3rd layer.
if i understand it conceptually, this should allow me to resume editing native .mts without down-converting or needing to go outside ppcc.
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I’d lose that 3-way color corrector. Can you do all the matching in Speedgrade? You shouldn’t have to jack this thing around that much.
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thanks. my goal was to use plugins to avoid needing any other tool outside ppcc. but that wish may be a pipe dream as is asking adobe for a feature that Vegas+AE have that lets us disable/re-enable each effect across a project so we can instantly turn ‘off’ effect(s) to better allow tweaking an edit then ‘on’ to render. i still did submit it.
this would provide an easy workaround option that AE+Vegas users enjoy, even if the root issue remains unchanged: ppcc seems unable to handle native .mts 2-camera editing if you turn ‘on’ 4 video fx at same time which i view as typical of any project (at least not on i7 win8 laptops that exceed specs). this forces users to stop the presses and get very savvy about how to outfox ppcc limitations and circumnavigate aka master convoluted adjustment layers and more programs like speedgrade or AE to finish.
luckily, i regained 1/2 control of playback just by taking the time to manually step through my clips and turn off the lumetri ‘fx’ for all cam 1 clips aka i have smooth playback at 1/4 resolution 25% size, but not 50% size or higher resolution.
ppcc clearly strains to process 4-5 video fx for a native .mts edit.
if i next turn off the RE:match camera-matching ‘fx’ on every cam1 clip, i’ll likely regain another good degree of playback control.
a simpler way to do this same thing is what AE+Vegas users enjoy. it’d not be a fix to the root issue, but a workaround that lets us finish.
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update: i decreased pre-roll time from 3 sec to 2 sec and instantly saw a difference i.e. smooth playback upon hitting play vs waiting for it to sputter up to speed over 3 seconds and smooth-enough playback at 1/2 resolution and 50% size. amazing discovery really.
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my summary conclusion after months of not finding answers and doing my own trial error isolation/troubleshooting using two machines, both bought to exceed specs, is that this “anomaly” has little to do with the hardware of your machine and little to do with whether fx on/off, and has all to do with how far into the timeline you are editing a native .mts file (in multicam mode).
it gets progressively worse the further into the timeline you keep editing and the only solution for shows longer than 15-20min, is to break them into two projects. if that wont work for you, then its best to not edit native .mts. you’ve been warned and adobe should be able to fix this aka i should log it when i find time to find the bug url.
the following details how the issue was isolated and how i got around it. my primary goal was to get through my multicam edit prior to adding any video fx and thereby accidentally isolated the issue.
all went smooth for the first 8 acts (3min each).
at 25+min on timeline, playback stutter becomes noticeable, so i start to close outside applications, at 30+min its getting worse where to keep editing, i need to save every few keystrokes and start lowering my playback quality and/or size, at 35+min the anomaly is crippling forcing me to drop resolution to 1/2 to continue.
by 50min on timeline, i’m forced to drop resolution to 1/4 and feel forced to break the show into two 25min project files because it is too slow/impossible to continue. that works, but only if you take 2 specific steps to workaround this timeline quirk/bug.
i regained playback on my multicam edit, by ‘saving as’ new file called ‘event second half’ deleting the 1st half on the target timeline and saving. but this alone did not change anything. so i tried one last thing and it surprisingly worked. to regain full performance, i had to physically drag/move the entire second half leftward on the timeline to start sooner on the timeline i.e. at 5min mark.
this changed everything and restored performance so had to share it.
i had to do the same procedure to the “source” timeline which then broke the multicam target so i was forced to renest the open tracks into multicam.
this was the only method that gave me back smooth full resolution playback for the first 7 minutes into the timeline. the first slowup i noticed was at 13th minute into multicam edit, so i closed outside applications i.e. chrome browser, ie. this allowed me to get to the 26th minute before i was forced to lower resolution to 1/2. i ran into a few more slow down hurdles, but was able to complete the project to end by reducing playback resolution etc.
to recap, physical placement of edited content on the timeline matters more than all else and not editing too far into content on timeline.
to reiterate, i had not yet employed any video fx at all, so isolated that out and saw same performance on two machines that exceeded spec.
prior to any multicam edits, the entire timeline played back fine at full resolution. as you edit into the timeline, stuttery playback issues become more noticeable every 5 minutes further into the timeline you edit.
the root problem appears to be associated to where specifically edited content starts/ends on the timeline in a native .mts multicam project.
this is viable workaround, but do think my projects deserve more robust .mts handling for multicam editing (sony vegas) that doesnt choke like this or i am forced to edit another format like mpg2 or avi.
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