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Color / luminance correct set up?
I`ve been a Vegas Pro user since version 3.0, but as the last versions have showed many issues, mainly when using Cineform Neo, I`m trying Premiere Pro 5.5
One of the first things I observed was that the preview image window showed a much more contrasted image (probably with a higher black level) than the preview window of Vegas Pro 9 / 11 Then I made a test rendering the same one minute of h.264 stuff to QT uncompressed, in both Premiere and Vegas.
When I watched the rendered clips in Vegas Pro 11 preview window, the Premiere clip was much more contrasted (higher black level?) than the Vegas Pro 11 clip, which seemed to be correct.
So, is there any previous set up that should be done in Premiere Pro 5.5 to work with the correct luminance and chrominance signals (if that is the problem)?
Thanks
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17 Replies
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Never use your computer monitor to make color judgements. Only with an external reference monitor getting SDI info from a device like the AJA Kona 3, can you make accurate reliable evaluations. Anything else is random and arbitrary. I know lots of folks do it, but its not a good way to QC your video.
Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
Mac Pro 3,1
8 core
10.6.8
Nvidia Quadro 4000
24 gigs ram
Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid
Kona 3 -
Thank you Tom, but the fact is that both clips are very diferent (regarding contrast / black level) played by the same player (Vegas Pro preview window) and (obviouslly) seen at the same monitor!
So what explain this fact, except for some missing set up? -
Sounds like you have a computer 0-255 luminance space vs a SMPTE 16-235 space issue. Video is 16-235. One will look contrasty or flat when going from one to the other if compensation is not made on import.
Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.0 and 5.5, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17″ 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe -
Thank you Jim, but what explain the difference between the clips rendered in Vegas Pro 11 and Premiere 5.5, seen in the same player (Vegas Pro 11) and monitor? And how to compensate on import?
Regards -
I have to disagree with Jim, here. Video is only 16-235 if you are working in a SMTPE-based digital workflow. Premiere does not. After Effects does not. Most compositing programs do not. Full-range digital video (0-255) is much more common these days. I believe AVID does use SMPTE standard.
However- it is a tricky thing, and you do need to know which is which. Perhaps Vegas uses SMPTE range?-jeff
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I’ve been doing a lot of exports from Premiere Pro to Media 100 Suite. Premiere must be 0-255, as when I import to M100 I have to use the 0-255 color range or it becomes very contrasty when compressed into SMPTE space.That is Media 100’s standard as is Avid’s. Broadcast standard is actually SMPTE, 16-235. If you expand a SMPTE space into computer space it will look flat and washed out. If you do the reverse it will be very contrasty, as you are compressing the luminance information into a much smaller range, just as contrasty material is depicted in a histogram as being in a narrower range. I don’t know anything about Vegas, or it’s color space, so I can’t hazard a guess as to it’s native mode, but the description sounds like that is what is happening.
Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.0 and 5.5, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17″ 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe -
BTW, Tom is right about external monitoring properly setup for video display, not a computer monitor. This will require an input/ouput card (I use AJA, many use BlackMagic, or Matrox) and an accurately setup video monitor, SDI or at least HDMI. BTW HDMI does not support PsF, you have to feed true progressive if that is your format. Many cameras, such as the EX-1, record PsF.
Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.0 and 5.5, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17″ 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe -
Thank you all for the good info.
In Vegas you can simulate / increase the luminance range (as a effect).
I`ve already done it to get more info in the blacks with my Canon DSLR stuff. Is there any way to mimic full luminance range in Premiere Pro? -
BTW, what is your final product destination? If it is for broadcast it will need to be at or below 100 IRE on the Premiere waveform. That is 235 in 8 bit YUV. 110 is 255. Anything above 100 is called superwhite. You can work in 0-255 RGB, but for broadcast it must be between 16-235. YouTube? Who cares? You can be loose around any non-brodcast distribution. Things are a little looser now with digital vs analog, but you will be rejected if your video is over 100 IRE to any great extent for broadcast high end cable/satellite. The 0-255 RGB range gives you the ability to favor the highlights or dark areas as is necessary for the aesthetics of your work. It does not mean it is broadcast legal. DVD, YouTube, other non-broadcast, doesn’t matter. I prefer to have all my video broadcast legal to begin with.
Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1,Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1, Premiere Pro 5.0 and 5.5, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Avid MC, Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz 24Gb RAM 120GB SSD, Macbook Pro 17″ 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 8Gb SSD, G5 Quadcore PCIe -
Thank you Jim.
It`s a (8 bit YUV) 89`documentary for broadcast (cable/satellite) and (maybe) digital projection.
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