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No 24fps (exact) on KiPro
I needed to advice someone wanting to shoot at exactly 24fps (not 23.98) from the F3 on to a KiPro*
But even in ‘NTSC mode’ the F3 cannot record or output 24fps as far as we could tell, from the menus.Further, over HDMI the F3 cannot output 1080p23.98 or 1080psf23.98 without adding a pull down to 29.97. Because, apparently, HDMI cannot convey psf23.98. So the KiPro records a clip as 1080p29.97 or that’s how it appears to FCP.
HD-SDI out of the SDI port on the F3 (not the HD-SDI A-B ports) does output 1080p.23.98 which the KiPro records correctly as 1080p23.98 and FCP too sees a 23.98 clip.
So is there any way at all, to actually shoot at exactly 24fps with a F3 camera and output a 24p signal out the HDMI or HDSDI? Even if there was, can the KiPro actually record exactly 24fps, or 24p or 24psf. I think not.
*exactly 24fps, because in PAL countries, we have no use for 23.98. And because of the severe pitch and tempo shift, shooting at 25fps and then slowing everything down by 4% to 24fps is not an elegant option.
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Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India -
3 Replies
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Neil,
Yes the KiPro can record 24.0 psf fps over HDSDI on the Sony F3, note that camera does not send out a true P signal only PsF over HDSDI.
HDMi signals are always true progressive on output
My guess is that the camera maybe set for DF recording( even thought 23.98, 24.0 &25 a NDF) it may be causing the camera to error,
Also make sure that the menu for ingest format be set to “Normal”- and not VFR or Progressive.
gary adcock
Studio37Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, ILhttps://blogs.creativecow.net/24640
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I went over to Sony at the Broadcast India expo and met a Senior engineer from their US office, who’s around for the show. He said “Of course the F3 does 24fps”. He then went over the menu settings and set it at 1080p23.98, and said “There you are”.
So that’s 24fps for most of the NTSC world. 23.98. We need 24fps like Alexa 24fps or film camera 24fps which with the F3 is not available.
But 23.98 is fine for this project.
One other problem is that there’s a Marshall LCD to be attached to the F3 camera via HDMI. When we set the F3 for 23.98psf, the monitor doesn’t show picture. But if we set it to 23.98>59.94i pulldown, the picture is fine on the Marshall.
Can the KiPro receive this faux 59.94 over HD-SDI and remove the pulldown to record at 23.98? I don’t have a KiPro to test this, but will have one in some hours from now. Or, can the F3 output 23.98 over HDSDI and 59.94 over HDMI simultaneously? I couldn’t find it a anywhere in the menus.
How do people shoot with the F3 at 1080p23.98 and use a Marshall to view picture over HDMI while recording to KiPro over HD-SDI?
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Neil Sadwelkar
neilsadwelkar.blogspot.com
twitter: fcpguru
FCP Editor, Edit systems consultant
Mumbai India -
Regarding your questions about the Sony PMW-F3 outputting SDI at 1080PsF 23.98fps and HDMI at 1080i 29.97fps, you may find this blog entry on Abel Cine’s website useful:
https://blog.abelcine.com/2011/06/03/new-sony-pmw-f3-firmware-v1-1-released/In particular, note the two sections entitled “Simultaneous Live HD-SDI and HDMI Output” and “Live Dual Link Output in 444 & 422” from the posting.
If you have additional questions, don’t hesitate to contact AJA Technical Support for assistance.
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AJA Video Systems
+1 (530) 274-2048 Intl.
(800) 251-4224 US
sales@aja.com
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