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Varicam Compatability
Hello all,
I have some questions re Variacm support for the Kona 2 card. We currently have a BM HD card that we use for most of our SD and all of our HD editing. We also have an Io on another G5 as a second suite.
I am generally happy with how the BM card handles 720p when dealing with standard frame rates, however the need to capture 2.5 times the amount of media you need when over cranking the Varicam for slow motion replay (60fps capture @ 25fps replay) is a little cumbersome and frustrating. Does the Kona 2 have any support for Varicam capture with over cranked frames (or under cranked frames for that matter), or does it rely on the FCP FRC plugin? If it does rely on the FCP FRC plugin does this still mean that it is lomited to NTSC frame rates only? (I won’t go into the usual PAL winge on this matter!!!!!)
Re the hardware down conversion on the card, has anyone done a back to back comparison with the BM HD card 720p @25 fps to SD 25fps. I am not terribly impressed with how the BM card handles this path, and as a result are considering other options, one being the Kona 2 card. Ideally I would like to have the Panasonic FRC for this task, but considering that 90% of the Varicam’s work is 25fps, the FRC does not stack up economically since the 1200ap does this task very well, but only with footage shot at 25fps.
Does the Kona 2 card have any proprietry 720p codecs, or does it rely only on the DVCPRO HD 100 codec?
Does the K Box add any more operationality to the system other than access to analoge inputs/outputs? Would people generally recommend using the K box anyway?
Any input would be greatly appreciated. -
25 Replies
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[matthew Romanis] “Does the Kona 2 have any support for Varicam capture with over cranked frames (or under cranked frames for that matter), or does it rely on the FCP FRC plugin?”
Yep, you can pretty much capture at any frame rate by coming in via HD-SDI. I think the default frame rates go down to 8fps, but you can always type in anything you want. FCP will capture the footage at whatever frame rate you set. It’s a very handy feature, though the FRC Tool is very nice too.
[matthew Romanis] “Does the Kona 2 card have any proprietry 720p codecs, or does it rely only on the DVCPRO HD 100 codec?”
There is an 8bit and 10bit 720p setting as well so you can work in uncompressed 720 as well. You can also capture to the DVCPro HD codec via the K2 from any source.
[matthew Romanis] “Does the K Box add any more operationality to the system other than access to analoge inputs/outputs? Would people generally recommend using the K box anyway?”
There are NO analog inputs at all on the K-Box. The only analog outputs are the Component video and RCA Stereo audio. The K-Box is a MUCH cleaner way to use the Kona 2 as the standard cables that come with the Kona 2 are a huge snake. At $299, the K-Box is a much cleaner and easier to use breakout box.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com
Now editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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Matthew,
The Kona 2 does not act as a realtime FRC. I do wish this was possible via the Kona 2 control panel in realtime. That FRC tool is reserved for FCP via the FRC plugin. If you capture directly into the Kona 2 from the Varicam via HDSDI the FRC flags are retained. One great feature in the Kona 2 control panel is a timecode display which can tell you the user bit information which tell you what frame rate your recorded on the Varicam as well as the actual numbers of active frames. This feature is great when dealing with footage in which no one slated the frame rate on camera and you want to know what the frame rate was.
FYI The speed of the Mac you are using is critical to using the FRC quickly. I have recently have been conducting testing on Varicam footage using a dual 2.7 G4, dual 1.0 G4 and powerbook with varicam footage. The FRC plugin will only work with Varicam DVCPRO HD clips not SD clips which are dubbed from the HD tapes.
The dual 2.7 G5 deals very quickly with the FRC process and is up to four times faster than the dual 1.0 G4.
The Kona 2 does have it own dvcpro HD codec for HDSDI capture in addition to the Panasonic’s dvcpro HD codec which is captured via firewire. I have captured via firewire but use the Kona 2 422 port for vtr control or capture via HDSDI out of the 1200A with Kona 2 422 deck control. Firewire deck control is a completely joke given how slow it takes. I did a test to compare the time required to capture under firewire vtr control and discovered it takes 20 sec up front for each and every clip to search and pre-roll the clip prior to the actual capture. For dozens if not hundreds of clip captures firewire deck control is something you want to avoid unless you are charging your client 25 cents a clip for capturing.
The downconversion quality on the Kona 2 is absolutely awesome and is the number one reason I choose to work with the Kona 2 over other HD video cards. Last year I tested the brand you mentioned and was severely disappointed to see the so called “broadcast quality” downconverter. That manufacturer finally admitted that their downdconverter was indeed not broadcast quality and in my professional opinion not even suitable for “monitoring” quality.
In closing considering the quality of AJA’s products and top notch level of customer support I can honestly say you are not making a mistake by purchasing the Kona 2 or any other AJA product for that matter.
Tony Salgado
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Thanks Walter and Tony for your reply.
Can I ask you if the method of capturing overcranked footage is the same as the BM card, in that if you have shot 1 minute of 60fps intended for replay at 25fps, you need to capture almost three times that length so as all the flagged frames can be written over the intended length of timecode?
Also, a question re the down conversion, is it active when down converting within FCP, or do you need to down convert out to tape then re capture the down converted material to realise it’s full potential. We often use the Varicam 60fps material as a slow motion source for some of our sports programs that are made in SD 25fps. -
[matthew Romanis] “so, a question re the down conversion, is it active when down converting within FCP, or do you need to down convert out to tape then re capture the down converted material to realise it’s full potential. We often use the Varicam 60fps material as a slow motion source for some of our sports programs that are made in SD 25fps.”
The Varicam runs from 4-60 frames a second, there is a way to have it capture 1FPS but it requires some effort.
The Varicam setting on the Kona 2 only captures the flagged frames, (without regard to codec) and because this is done with hardware only the frames that are flagged are extracted. So Varicam footage shot at 60fps runs 2x+ slower than the footage looks when playing back.
From IBC
Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL -
Hi Gary,
I may not have made my question very clear. I own a Varicam and aware of all it’s capabilities.
What I am asking is how the Kona 2 card actually captures footage shot with the camera cranking at 60fps, but intended for playback at conventional frame rates thus providing a slow down. With the BM card you have to capture 3x the amount of footage than you intend on using so as the flagged frames are laid 1:1 on a 25fps timeline. This can be very frustrating especially when the original tape is shot beyond a 12 min limit (you have to roll out the rest of the tape with time code/bars.) When confronted with a tape shot out to 25mins for example, you have to make multiple captures each progressively getting smaller in duration, but further along in the tape.
If you could explain to me the actual mechanics of capturing 60fps cranked footage intended for 25fps playback thus creating slow motion with the Kona 2 card.
With the BM card FCP capture setting are all set to 25fps (not 60fps, this is a BM provided capture setting) and time line settings are all set to 25fps. All this ensures that when you drop the original slow motion footage on a 25fps 720p time line, there is no rendering.
I am wondering if the Kona 2 card provides a more elegant way of dealing with overcranked footage.
Thanks. -
Hi Gary.
I noticed you are in Chicago. Mate, your’e up late!!!
Thanks for taking time to reply.
Greetings from Australia. -
[tony salgado] “The Kona 2 does not act as a realtime FRC. I do wish this was possible via the Kona 2 control panel in realtime.”
Actually, yes the Kona 2 does act as a real-time FRC, but you don’t do it with the control panel. You go into the Capture Settings and change the frame rate to capture with.
You can change the frame rate from I belive 8 to 60fps, then you can always type in your own fps if you choose.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com
Now editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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[matthew Romanis] “What I am asking is how the Kona 2 card actually captures footage shot with the camera cranking at 60fps, but intended for playback at conventional frame rates thus providing a slow down. With the BM card you have to capture 3x the amount of footage than you intend on using so as the flagged frames are laid 1:1 on a 25fps timelin”
It’s the same with the Kona 2. I was helping a client capture 60p footage at 23.98 because he wants all of it to be slow mo. In order to do this on the fly via the K2, you need to capture about 3x what you would think you’d need. I’ve actually been discussing this with AJA Tech Support to see if we can come up with some sort of formula to help folks capture this way, but it’s always going to involve capturing more than you would think.
Ideally what you want to do is set the In Point and Out Point and have FCP capture those exact timecode numbers, but it never works that way. I think FCP quits out when the length of the clip runs what FCP thinks it should be.
It’s actually much easier to do this with the FRC Tool so you can capture the footage at 60p using the correct timecodes and then change the speed later.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Creative Genius, Biscardi Creative Media
https://www.biscardicreative.comNow in Production, “The Rough Cut,” https://www.theroughcutmovie.com
Now editing “Good Eats” in HD for the Food Network
“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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Matthew,
I generally have been capturing at 60 fps and then using the FRC tool. For example clips that are 15-20 sec in length take about 10 sec in a dual 2.7ghz G5 for the FRC conversion and drop back the self contained movie back into the browser.
The Kona 2 downconverter is only active for output to tape. To downconvert for FCP SD sequences and avoid going out to tape and back in again I have been using FCP to downconvert clips.
One experiment I am going to conduct later is to use both my Kona 2 on a G5 and Kona on a G4 and dub out via SDI from the G5 Kona 2 to the G4 Kona SDI in and capture via FCP. This would be a a solution for long sequences in which you want the downconverted material on hard drive and not tape thereby avoiding recapturing it again.
I do wish the Kona 2 was capable of internally downconverting HD to SD for capture back into FCP as a source.
Tony Salgado
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[matthew Romanis] “footage shot with the camera cranking at 60fps, but intended for playback at conventional frame rates thus providing a slow down. With the BM card you have to capture 3x the amount of footage than you intend on using so as the flagged frames are laid 1:1 on a 25fps timeline. “
Well you are capturing Frames Per Second,so if you record a 10 minute scene on tape it still only captures for 10 minutes not more. The hardware is only polling the flagged frames not any additional info, so there is no need to “record 3x” the amount of footage to get the content just the length of time you captured the content on tape
It works just like the Hardware FRC – it is one of the benefits of using hardware for conversions[matthew Romanis] “If you could explain to me the actual mechanics of capturing 60fps cranked footage intended for 25fps playback thus creating slow motion with the Kona 2 card.”
the varicam always records 60 frames to tape with out regard to the speed at which you shoot. These frames are flagged in the RP188 TC track. The Kona Varicam setting reads only the frames flagged at the data rate you shot – throwing away the rest.
From IBC
Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL
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