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FCP X re-rendering noise correction plug-in any time I make a change
I have started to use the Neat Video plug-in in FCP X to remove noise, which is caused by the low light conditions I am having to shoot live bands in. (Hopefully two Super 35mm sensor cameras, which will replace a 1/3″ sensor camera, are going to solve this in the next few weeks).
My Projects are simple and short. Each includes only one band song, 10 minutes long max. The rendering for this plug-in takes a long time (approximately 75 minutes for a 5 minute song), and you have to wait for rendering to occur before doing anything else in FCP X (Neat Video Support calls it a “temporal filter”).
The problem is this:
Everything works fine if I apply Neat Video last, just before I export.So, I usually: Edit video->process audio in Pro Tools->correct color->remove noise->Export.
However, if I do anything after applying Neat Video, and then try to export, I find FCP X completely re-renders Neat Video. I say it re-renders because, when I export, the time is around 75 minutes rather than the usual 5 minutes………….I assume this means FCP X is completely re-rendering Neat Video.
I have discussed this with Neat Video tech support at great length (they provide outstanding support, BTW) and they tell me there is no reason Neat Video needs to be re-rendered, once it has been applied, unless I choose to apply the plug-in again. They also say that the plug-in does not control the decision to render, this is controlled by FCP X. I have spent enough time talking with them that I am convinced they are not just passing the buck.
Here is one example of what will trigger this:
After applying and rendering the Neat Video plug-in and just before I started to export, I realized I had forgotten to pan the audio (FYI, I export the original audio, process in Pro Tools, then import multi-mono audio back into FCP X. It must be panned in FCP X). I panned the audio, a 15 second job, tried exporting……..and it took 75 minutes to export.This kind of issue only happens if I am using the plug-in.
Why would FCP X decide to re-render the noise correction if anything is done after the first rendering?
How do I stop it? -
16 Replies
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I’m not familiar with the filter. Are you rendering the timeline before you export? Or are you just adding the filter and exporting, letting it render during export? Because the latter doesn’t actually save the render. It has to render to export, but then it returns your timeline to the way you left it. Unrendered if that’s the case.
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Bret,
Here is what I do:
– Double click on the plug-in in the Effects Browser so the plug-in appears in the Inspector, along with the built-in effects.
– I double click on it in the Inspector so the Neat Video window opens.
– In the clip that needs correcting, I locate a frame where I can select a sample of noise with a constant background.
– I hit “Learn” and the plug-in learns the noise present
– I “Apply” and the noise correction is applied to the entire clip.At this point, nothing else can be done in FCP X, until the plug-in rendering is complete…..about 75 minutes for a 5 minute clip.
If I then go to Share–> Export w/o doing anything else, the export will take 5 minutes or so. The resulting video is beautiful, noise gone, super plug-in.
Alternatively, if I do anything else, however simple (and this “anything” has nothing to do with the plug-in), and then Share–>Export, the export takes 75 minutes.
I conclude from this that FCP X thinks the Neat Video must be re-rendered, just because an un-related action was taken.
It doesn’t make any sense to me.
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[Michael Holmes] “At this point, nothing else can be done in FCP X, until the plug-in rendering is complete…..about 75 minutes for a 5 minute clip.”
This doesn’t sound like rendering, since you aren’t specifically using the FCP X render command. It sounds like Neat is doing an analysis pass. Apparently that analysis info is being discarded when you make changes of any sort. Sounds like a bug in the plug-in or it’s simply not optimized for FCP X. Are you able to test it somewhere else, like in After Effects?
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
Sorry, I don’t really have anything else I can use it in.
I’m not sure what you mean by “analysis pass”. The analysis that it does is to “Learn” the specifics of the noise in a selected clip from a single frame. This occurs in a few seconds. Then you can immediately go into rendering.
Specifically, the procedure to use the plug-in is to:
(1) Open the plug-in
(2) Either load a stored preset, are enable the plug-in to “Learn” a new preset from a frame…..it must have a preset “loaded” to operate.
(3) Hit the “Apply” button.Once it has completed the calculations/rendering, this procedure must be repeated to trigger new calculations.
Neat Video support says there is no way the plug-in can initiate rendering by itself. They have no control over rendering, this is an FCP X decision on when rendering should occur.
Neat Video support has suggested that I try using the effect Distortion–>Trails, since it also uses temporal processing, to see if this is confusing FCP X somehow. I will do this when I finish up on a project.
I am still not inclined to blame the plug-in, since I don’t see how it could take control of operations once I have used it and completed rendering. But strange things can happen. 🙂
I don’t know what else to do at this point, other than try this little test.
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Well I’m still confused. I still don’t understand where you’ve told it to render, or where you’ve mentioned how long it too For FCP X to render it in the background. You just mention exporting and the export taking a long time, which means it wasn’t rendered, which means its going to have to render when you export again. Do you have background render on? Is the timeline orange at the top?
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I’ll try to be more specific about what is happening.
As I said above, I open the Neat Video window, Neat Video “Learns” the noise, and I hit “Apply”. At this point, nothing else can be done in FCP X until the plug-in rendering is completed…..about 75 minutes for a 5 minute clip. The calculations/rendering are not done in the background. It cranks through in real time while everything else stops.
Once this is completed, when I look at the background window, there may or may not be background rendering yet to be completed, depending on editing and color correction I did before applying the Neat Video plug-in. I have background rendering On. Putting this plug-in aside for the moment, my impression is that whether background rendering is completed or not, I can export when I am ready and this isn’t an issue. That has been my experience, at least.
Back to the plug-in. After going through the 75 minute “everything stops” calculations, if I then Export, everything is fine. Even if background rendering is not 100% completed, no problem…….a few minutes and I have an H.264 QT movie, as is the normal case with my simple Projects.
However, if instead, I do anything: Add a transition, adjust Exposure, switch color correction off and then back on, etc., and I then export, the Export will take about the same time that the “everything stops” period took, about 75 minutes or so.
Since the time period is about the same as the “everything stops” period, I am assuming that the plug-in calcs are being repeated. This is an assumption, but it seems like a likely one to me. But an assumption, I have no other explanation.
I hope I did better explaining, I’m not sure: 🙂
The key points are:
(1) This plug-in stops everything while it is applied/calculated/rendered
(2) I can Export next, no problem (background rendering status doesn’t matter)
(3) If I change anything, in any way, the Export suddenly becomes a different animal.I am starting to think I am the only person who has ever experienced this. Man, I must be doing something really wrong. 🙁
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I’m not 100% sure where I saw it but somewhere in the neat video docs there is a mention that it will do exactly this.
The suggested workflow was to apply the effect, tweak as required, then turn it off again while you continue working. Turn it back on before the final render. I haven’t experienced quite as dramatic a system cruch as described here but Neat Video is an incredibly processor intensive plugin so it’s not surprising it brings everything else to a halt while it does its thing..
it’s the best at what it does though.
I’m surprised their support people weren’t on it because the general issue is mentioned in their documentation.
Jeff Kirkland | Southern Creative Media
video * audio * post * production
Melbourne, Australia -
Jeff,
Yes, the lengthy calculation process is definitely part of this plug-in. And I agree, it is the best I’ve used, bar none……It is worth the wait if noise is a problem.It is going through it twice that I am having a problem with. 🙂
The Neat Video guys say I should be able to complete the application of the plug-in, then do whatever I want to do in FCP X, then export and not have a problem.
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I try to get the clips that need Neat Video applied rendered to a new file as early in the edit as I can, or once I know Neat is going to do the job, I leave it to the very end of the edit to apply it.
There’s also a ‘fast’ option in Neat that still seems to do a good job but reduces render times to minutes instead of hours. Sometimes it helps to use that while editing and then go to the full option before final render.
Hopefully a future version of FCPX will be a little less trigger happy when it comes to re-rendering timeline changes.
Jeff Kirkland | Southern Creative Media
video * audio * post * production
Melbourne, Australia -
[Jeff Kirkland] “I try to get the clips that need Neat Video applied rendered to a new file as early in the edit as I can, or once I know Neat is going to do the job, I leave it to the very end of the edit to apply it.”
This is what I do as well, either apply and adjust the filter then export the clip and bring it back in to replace the original, or apply the filter then turn it off until the edit is complete.
But, Michael, the problem you describe does sound out of the ordinary. After applying the filter you should be able to go right back to work editing immediately. Only seeing slow performance while the playhead is over the unrendered clip with Neat on it. have you tried trashing preferences and/or reinstalling the plug-in?
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