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FCP X and film editing
Some more thoughts to chew on….
It strikes me that FCP X uses a design that is more akin to film editing than previous NLEs. The storyline/connected clip paradigm mimics a newsfilm/documentary A-Roll (dialogue) / B-Roll (cutaway) approach. Same for magnetic timeline and other aspects, which are very film-like. The level of metadata you can add to a clip is the ultimate “code book” for assistants.
So, it makes me wonder why editors who started on film are still hanging onto Avid. Look at TouchEdit on the iPad. Developed by an “Avid” editor, yet more like X than Media Composer. I suspect it’s just familiarity and trust. But some of the things that were critical to Avid and film – like negative cut lists and matchbacks – are no longer needed for most digitally-acquired films.
If you started learning an NLE today coming from strictly a Moviola/KEM/Steenbeck training, then I suspect FCP X would feel more “right” to you. Media Composer is deep and powerful, but often more complex than needed. Most Avid editors overlook this, since they have grown up with the software as it evolved. Wonder if that would still be true if both apps started from scratch today.
One interesting indicator will be how Lightworks Mac stacks up in film editor use versus FCP X.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
23 Replies
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Agree with you Oliver – but think the folks who will like FCPX the most are those who’ve used nothing else. I’m currently “polishing” 2 completed feature films in X – one which was brought in from 7 and one which has lived in a couple of NLE’s last of which was actually FCPX. My biggest gripe with these full timelines are they are a lot more sluggish than I’d like – I had to go back and re-export the 7 show in 4 separate reels to get it up to speed. I really think FCPX is fine for long form work but only if it’s done from scratch and in a very careful and organized way. I’ve already experienced your prior issues with media management…
After playing with Lightworks on the PC and seeing the Mac version at NAB I do think it’s the most filmic NLE I’ve seen since my flatbed days in the 80’s – it’s by far the most flexible and customizable NLE I’ve ever seen and perfect for long form narrative work – I plan on giving it a serious go on a future project.
Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1 -
While I was never a film editor, I started editing in the early 80s on linear systems. One reason I like FCPX is that it’s magnetic timeline and connected clips and secondary story lines feels like a much more natural progression than track based editing. It’s why I’ve posted previously that I’ve been looking for an NLE like FCPX since the early days of Avid.
As a former linear editor, I really like FCPX’s Timeline Index. For all of FCPX’s “radical” approach, that feature is a very good rethink on a very “traditional” linear edit list. It’s like an EDL with metadata features.
In some respects, for me, it’s as if Apple went back to 1990 (the early days of NLEs) and did a “what if we branched it in a different direction.”
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Oliver,
I’m not sure of your premise here, but I thought I’d write to clarify some of your references.
It’s clear to me that FCPX was developed around two fundamentals: A/B editing and browser-based editing.
The A/B editing as a model has been discussed before:
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/21027#21054
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/41526#41644There seems to be at least 2 distinct meanings:
– from broadcast, where A/B referred to source decks
– from film neg cutting in 16mm, where shots had to alternate from one roll to the otherI’m not familiar with your “newsfilm/documentary A-Roll (dialogue) / B-Roll (cutaway) approach” and I’d like to hear more about that process and your experience with it – it would represent a third meaning predating but similar to the broadcast meaning. Still, it seems very specific and certainly did not inform “film editing” as a whole, where rolls of film were not typically organized that way.
I could only find one discussion of this history, and it’s not very authoritative, so I’d be interested in more info if you have it.
https://www.theindiefilmblog.com/history/the-history-of-the-term-b-rollBy “browser-based editing”, I mean the approach to editing where the browser is used as the main organizing and selection space; this in contrast to “sequence-based editing” where almost all organizing and selecting is done sequences. I think there’s an argument that “sequence-based” editing is more rooted in the history of film editing, but I don’t know how conclusive that is. It seems that FCPX was developed around browser-based editing.
I have talked about this before as well:
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/49642 (most recent)Given the above, I find your comparisons of FCPX and film editing a bit unclear.
Franz.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “I’m not familiar with your “newsfilm/documentary A-Roll (dialogue) / B-Roll (cutaway) approach” and I’d like to hear more about that process and your experience with it – it would represent a third meaning predating but similar to the broadcast meaning.”
From the news perspective, A-roll refers to the interview footage that makes up the bulk of news stories. The spine of a news pkg are the VO and Interview bites called, “SOTs” which tell the news story. B-roll are the shots of video which illustrate the story. They cover black holes and often go atop the SOTs. If you look at this structure, it’s one that lends itself extremely well to FCPX
You place the VO and SOTs in the primary storyline, and then just connect all the broll above. This news structure also has a lot in common with documentary films who often rely on narration and interviews to drive the story.
In a lot of ways, this structure is also ideally suited for docu-style reality TV.
Andy
https://www.timesavertutorials.com
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[Andy Neil] “From the news perspective, A-roll refers to the interview footage that makes up the bulk of news stories.”
Andy,
Yes, you and I have posted about precisely this before. (links above)
Oliver was referring to this specifically as a “film editing” paradigm, where I associate its roots with broadcast (where its ideological meaning followed on from the practical roots of having two source decks). That is what I was asking about.
Franz.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “[Andy Neil] “From the news perspective, A-roll refers to the interview footage that makes up the bulk of news stories.”
Oliver was referring to this specifically as a “film editing” paradigm, where I associate its roots with broadcast “
We are basically saying the same thing and I realize it may have regional differences. In news, it’s a bit of a hybrid. When news stories were cut on film you typically ended up with an A-roll reel (dialogue, a la the “radio cut”) and a synchronized b-roll reel for cutaways. The A-roll reel’s audio was striped on the picture edge. Both would be sync-rolled in two projectors and the director would switch between. This is similar – but not identical to – A/B-rolls as the term is used by film labs for printing.
My point was simply that the primary storyline concept is similar to the A-roll (“radio cut” track) in the news scenario, when news stories were cut on film.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “When news stories were cut on film you typically ended up with an A-roll reel (dialogue, a la the “radio cut”) and a synchronized b-roll reel for cutaways. The A-roll reel’s audio was striped on the picture edge. Both would be sync-rolled in two projectors and the director would switch between. This is similar – but not identical to – A/B-rolls as the term is used by film labs for printing.”
Oliver,
Live switching sync-ed projectors? This I did not know about. I would be interested in further details.
Franz.
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[Lance Bachelder] ” My biggest gripe with these full timelines are they are a lot more sluggish than I’d like – I had to go back and re-export the 7 show in 4 separate reels to get it up to speed.”
I completely agree. My biggest fear with X is the sluggishness with large projects. I still feel that the UI is not as responsive as other NLEs due to the inherent animations and frequent updating of the event databases. Ignoring skimming, all other UI actions are slow to me, on every machine I’ve tested, including the newest iMacs. And video randomly stutters to the viewer because of how refresh is handled.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
“Live switching sync-ed projectors? This I did not know about. I would be interested in further details.”
Push the start button for both projectors (parked on the 2-pop). Director makes the cut or dissolve at the video switcher based on the timing cues written on the script.– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
Oliver,
I think David Roth Weiss was referencing this in one of those old threads when he talked about passing negative through film-chain projectors.
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/21071
I can’t find much about this stuff in a quick search.
But – and this is more germaine to your original post – these are all broadcast paradigms – not film. Even in your description – the “radio cut” – comes to us from broadcast history, not film history (except as it has served broadcast).
A/B editing is a broadcast conception of what editing is, and this is what has informed FCP X design.
Franz.
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