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Standard Def Waveform Vector on HD
I shoot HD with the new Panasonic AJ-HDX900. This camera will give you Standard Def SDI and Standard Def out of video out. I have heard you can use a standard def waveform/vectorscope to set up an HD camera. What I was told that the Gamma setting will be different on the waveform because you set up HD black at zero and SD at 7.5. So when I have a greyscale chart up and want to set my blacks, master ped etc. Is zero on a standard def waveforn from an HD camera zero? Any other tips on using a standard def waveform/vectorscope? And please don’t tell me to suck it up and always use thge Leader LV5750 clients won’t always spring for the rental.
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17 Replies
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As I understand it, your blackest black is 0 in any digital format, whether HD or SD. The ability of some cameras(like the SDX-900) to spit out a signal with a 7.5 IRE set -up allows you to feed older CRT analog monitors without the picture looking too contrasty.
I’ve fed a down-converted HD signal into a SD waveform/vectorscope for setting up both Sony and Panasonic high definition cameras with good results. I usually set the master blacks 2-3 units above zero though, especially when running and gunning. It’s easier to pull those blacks down in post if you have to than to do the opposite if they’re crushed.
T.Krohn
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John,
Are you recording SD or HD? Is the footage to be edited in the HD realm or SD?
Do you really care to monitor what is going down to tape or another signal which has no relationship to what was actually recorded to tape?
If then view in Crappy NTSC, record to VHS and make dubs based on a Compuvideo NTSC waveform.
All will be well as image specifications or quality control standard mean nothing if the client is not willing to pay for anything but the marketing hype about low cost HD.
FYI you may not need to use the 5750 for all your shoots but to setup and calibrate the camera for longterm use you are advised to use the proper instrumention ie HD waveform, HD monitor, DSC cam align chart, qualified video engineer.
Tony Salgado
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Tony-
Since I am using the Panasonic HDX900 you can safely assume I am shooting High Def. My work flow usually innvolves shooting HD to tape, digitizing into Final Cut uncompressed, performing the edit and spitting the final product out, down converting to Digital Beta Cam for distribution. Why would I consider “If then view in Crappy NTSC, record to VHS and make dubs based on a Compuvideo NTSC waveform”?I really don’t consider the HDX900 low cost HD. We all have to be realistic with the budgets given us and I always try to give my clients the best bang for their buck. Thanks to major manufacturers throwing low cost HD cameras on the market there are a thousands young folks know nothing about density and color space, yet we have to compete with them in the market place Unless something goes horribly wrong with an image many times the client usually doesn’t notice.
I usually set my camera up using a Chroma DuMond chart and set my blacks to the 7.5 standard and was looking for some helpful advice on the pitfalls of using an SD waveform/vectorscope. Thank you Tom Krohn I appreciate your advice. You are very correct once your blacks are crushed they are…well, crushed. Knowing where the product will end up has never been more important in the workflow process. Any practical advice in these times of transition in greatly appreciated.
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John,
You missed my point completely regarding using HD monitoring gear for HD critical viewing. Setting up a camera for NTSC when your entire post production chain is centered around HD is fine for maximizing those crappy VHS dubs but does little for the native HD material. NTSC does not have the color space or dynamic range possible in HD so how can you properly setup the camera if you are viewing a compromised signal?
If you really are interested in setting up your camera to maximize what it can do in HD then my suggestion is to use the proper HD engineering equipment which will allow you to maximize the camera’s true capability.
Shooting in HD does not mean you carry along an NTSC workflow which worked fine for betacam. It’s up to you to educate your clients on the merits of viewing and monitoring properly in HD instead of moaning about why they won’t pay. It’s all due to no one educating them on what the implications of shooting in HD really are about.
Granted smaller markets have tight budgets but I can’t comprehend why anyone would buy a higher end HD camera package and treat it like they are still shooting betacam.
Maybe the HVX-200 would have been a more suitable fit.
Tony Salgado
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Sorry, but you are just acting like a prick Tony. The guy made it clear on his first post that he didn’t need this kind of response. As far as belittling the guy, I wouldn’t say I work in a small market, Baltimore. I Work on Tv shows feature films, and plenty of high end Hd stuff and I have never even seen a HD Vectorscope. And no, no one will pay for it. I also looked you up in the 600 union directory, and guess what? You’re not in there. So get off your high horse and shut your mouth if you don’t have anything useful to say.Merry christmas.
Nick “Calls It as he sees it Gardner”
PS
To The moderators – If you must ban me, go ahead. If you guys can’t keep schmucks like Tony from acting like 1st graders, I don’t want to be here. -
[Nick Gardner] “To The moderators – If you must ban me, go ahead. If you guys can’t keep schmucks like Tony from acting like 1st graders, I don’t want to be here.”
Nick,
Just got off the phone with your doctor and he said to tell you: “Take a deep breath, man. Slow down and go sing Christmas carols or something…”
For a guy who wants to be the arbiter of who should be banned or not, you’ve got a pretty over-the-top attitude yourself. Kathlyn and I have been VERY busy — her, trying to run the whole site by herself, while I finish the new issue of the magazine that goes to press on Tuesday. Sorry that we are not available to jump at your beck and call. Kathlyn just forwarded me this link as she’s way too nice to tell you that you are being every bit the jerk that you accuse Tony of being. Me, I am not as nice as Kathlyn…
So in the spirit of the season: Go sing Christmas corals or something…
Ron Lindeboom
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[tony salgado] “Granted smaller markets have tight budgets but I can’t comprehend why anyone would buy a higher end HD camera package and treat it like they are still shooting betacam. Maybe the HVX-200 would have been a more suitable fit.”
I would agree with Nick Gardner that this kind of “advice” is nothing more than snide, condescending soap-boxing that does no one any good.
Please keep this kind of stuff off the forums, Tony.
Ron Lindeboom
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My doctor in fact called me shortly after he got off the phone with you, phoned in a prescription for Jamesons, and told me to call it a day. I didn’t mean to suggest that the moderators were not doing thier jobs. I meant to let you know, that I knew I was being over the top, and was willing to accept the out come of that action.
So anyway, point taken, Merry Chrismas, and my apologies to the forum for being a grinch.
Nick Gardner
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[Nick Gardner] “my apologies to the forum for being a grinch”
Hey, the Grinch’s heart grew 3 sizes — before he had some Jameson’s!
Hohoho,
Tim
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Wow, I didn’t mean to stir the pot. But thanks again to the folks with good advice. And by the way I do own a HVX-200 and a Sony Z1U, different toys for different budgets and jobs. Lets keep positive and hope 2007 will be a good year for expanding the HD universe. I value those of you who are willing to share their useful insights.
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