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FILM REC Mode and Noise
Curious if anyone has experience with this…
I shot a feature with the Varicam in FILM REC mode. Footage looks great, but in the majority of the shadow areas or darker scenes there is often video noise. We would black balance frequently, but this did not seem to help much.
I’m wondering if there is a particular setting we should have tweaked to help this noise from occuring (or at least reduced it)?
As you know, FILM REC mode records the image “flat”, low contrast, which is what we wanted so we could color correct properly on a DaVinci. But, unfortunately the dark scenes are really noisey where any or all of the light drops off.
Other thing… we upconverted the 24p footage (with pulldown) as we digitized into an Avid DS Nitris to 1080i from 720p using the Panny 1700 deck. Do you think this would increase the noise? We captured 10 bit 4:2:2 uncompressed.
Would it make sense to do a 720p online and then upconvert to 1080i through a Teranex? Would this reduce shadow and dark area noise?
Our final master will be on D5-HD.
Thanks for your help!
Blake Calhoun
http://www.killingdown.com -
15 Replies
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Did you turn on the dark compression? Setup with the Varicam is essential, use a good chart like the chroma du monde before you shoot.
Chris Bell
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We did set the camera up (as I recall, it was a year and a half ago when we shot). And, actually the card settings we used were from a Panasonic rep in Dallas.
Thanks,
Blake -
Oh, and I’m not sure about the “dark compression” setting? Not familiar with that one off the top of my head…
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Blake,
Dark compression if activated would have aided the problems you are seeing.
Don’t tell me your producer did not hire an experienced DIT or video engineer for the shoot so know they are seeing the results and not hiring talent and instead relying on a cookie cutter camera template setup.
Such a shame but then again you get what you don’t pay for and then some.
Sorry to hear the bad news.
Tony Salgado
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sorry for the typos I meant to say the following:
Please don’t tell me your producer did not hire an experienced DIT or video engineer for the shoot. They are now seeing the results of not hiring talent and instead relying on a cookie cutter camera template setup.
Such a shame but then again you get what you don’t pay for and then some.
Tony
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Actually, I was the producer as well as director. So all blame goes to me. 🙂
The rental house we got the camera from had an engineer and we did work with him in setting up and testing the camera. The settings we got from Panasonic looked the best and most filmic in our minds (and still does today). We did of course tweak the settings some here and there – mainly looking at pedastal, etc. and shutter angle. We shot the majority of the film at a 220 degree shutter finding it matched the look and feel of 35mm best.
When we shot over a year and a half ago the camera was basically brand new, so the engineer was not completely familiar with the ins and outs, but overall we got really great images except for noisey shadows and some dark areas.
So, what we have is what we have and now I know for the future to adjust the “Dark Compression” setting or at least try that. But, what I need to figure out is if doing a 720p online and outputting to D5-HD tape – then upconverting to 1080i via a Teranex box would look better than doing the upconvert straight out of the 1700 deck into the Avid DS Nitris. Any thoughts or experience with this?
Thanks for the comments.
Blake
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Under no circumstances is it possible to improve image quality by adding a duplication in the chain. The best you can hope for is a clone, an exact digital match, so just go directly from your 1700 to your edit system.
I don’t know if the Teranex can ameliorate your noise problem. Perhaps a high-end color grading system could help; you should go to a facility that has one and let them have a crack at it.
Why are you planning to cross convert to 1080i? I suspect your material will look much better in progressive. Just do your edit in 24p.
At the risk of sounding unsympathetic, which I certainly am not, the VariCam was not a new product a year and a half ago and there were plenty of qualified assistants and operators out there. I’m sure you know your biggest mistake was in not testing all the way through the production/post production chain. You can take some small comfort in knowing that you’re not alone.
Sorry I can’t offer a silver bullet solution.
Good shooting!
Leo
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Thanks Leo for the info.
Just to clarify… the camera was new to the rental house when we used it. Not new to the market per se. And, I’m not trying to improve (or rid of) the noise that’s already on tape, what I’m trying to do is NOT enhance it.
It’s a long, long story as to why we’re doing 1080i – because yes, we did shoot 24p – but we’re doing 1080i with pulldown for out final master. I just didn’t know if upconverting from the deck to 1080i is enhancing the noise? And if we went through the Terenax if it would help reduce this?
And it does make me feel better that I’m not the only one with the issues. 🙂
Thanks again,
Blake -
I saw the low-light Varicam noise 1st hand a couple of years ago during grading of a feature destined for film output. After a lot of creative work in Da Vinci, the resulting noise in shadows was not at all nice, so much so that we resorted to a noise reduction unit to cure it (at some cost to sharpness). If you have access to a Niagra or DVNR then it might be worth a try if the noise is causing concern.
It’s doubtful that the up-conversion is increasing the noise.
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We’re grading this film right now on a Davinci 2K and that’s a lot of the reason (I think) I’m just now noticing more noise.
Of course I noticed it some earlier in the editing process, but it’s a lot more evident now when we’re bringing up the highlights, etc. and watching it on a large 37″ HD reference monitor.
We’re using a lot of power windows to keep the shadows and dark areas dark – and it’s helping hide the noise – but it is rather frustrating I must say. Looks like we shot on 16mm in some scenes! 🙂
Good news is that most people won’t be sitting three feet from a $20,000 HD monitor when they watch the movie. As a matter of fact, I think when it goes down to NTSC (and then DVD) it will hardly be noticeable.
I will definitely ask at the color correction house about the noise reduction systems you refer to.
Thanks again,
Blake
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