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Converting 24P over 60 to 24PN
Hello again:
Is there any way to remove the extra frames after import in FCP 5.0.4? I tried Cinema Tools, but the Reverse Telecine option was greyed out. Also, the FRC plug-in doesn’t even come up with one of these clips selected…I want to convert to 24PN so I can cut on a 23.98 timeline with other 24PN material.
Help. (and apologies if I already basically asked this question in a previous post…)
Best, JIM.
OSX.4.3
Dual 2.7 G5
3.5 GB RAM
Radeon X800 XT
Kona 2 / K-Box
Seritek 1.2 TB RAID
AVID XPRESS PRO/MOJO -
20 Replies
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[Jim Blokland] “Also, the FRC plug-in doesn’t even come up with one of these clips selected…I want to convert to 24PN so I can cut on a 23.98 timeline with other 24PN material.”
Ok
a couple of things– Contrary to what jeremy says there is not an advanced pulldown with progressive content.the Default pulldown for 24p content is 3:2
The FRC needs to be downloaded from the panasonic web site it is not in FCP by default- you can find it at as the first link at the bottom of the page.
https://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=R&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=93120&catGroupId=14616&modelNo=AG-HVX200&surfModel=AG-HVX200Notes when using the Software FRC:
the files must be in the browser window — NOT inside bins or folders
The files need to be in the default 59.94 DVCPROHD content.Shane has a excellent demo here on the Cow for people that have never used it.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL -
I konw that DVCPRo HD does not have advanced pulldown, but I have read in the manual that when working with 720p60 material and you need to convert the material to 24p (remove the redundant frames) after capture, that choosing Tools>Remove advanced pulldown works. Have I tried it? No. I was just passing along manual information. I am about to try it and see what happens.
Jeremy
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Yep, I thought that was too good to be true. It doesn’t work. It’s looking for DV50 or DV material to remove the advanced pulldown. The manual is wrong. By the way, this is from Chapter 4 Page 59 of the “working with high definition and broadcast formats” manual. I quote:
To remove duplicate frames from your media files after capture:
Select the 720p60 clips in the Browser, then choose Tools > Remove Advanced Pulldown.
Your media files will remain the same size, but they will be set to play back at 23.98 fps.
Note: If no duplicate frames are detected, the media file remains at 59.94 fps.When I do this, I get a warning talking about there’s no dv or dv50 NTSC clips. Duh.
Well, Jim, that leaves with the method that Gary said with the DVCPRO HD Frame Rate Converter. The problem is that you lose audio. So you will have to grab the audio from the original clip and sync with the newly created clip.
FCP 5.1 should be in your future.
Jeremy
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What was your original clip?
You say it was 24p and you want to convert to 24pN?
Or is the clip 720 60p and you want to convert to 24pN.First off you really need 5.1
Second the Frame Rate converter only works with footage that was shot 720 60p.
For the Frame rate converter to work you must duplicate your clip and
then drag it into another folder, usually in another project.Click it and then click the FRC option. Shane Ross has a great tutorial
somewhere that covers the FRC.Now if you shot 24p which is really 29.97 with Pulldown you must
use Cinema Tools. Then Reverse TeleCine.Hope that was not too confusing!!
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[izoneguy] “You say it was 24p and you want to convert to 24pN?”
only the HVX 200 can create files at 24pN- if it runs thru the FRC it is just 24p
[izoneguy] “First off you really need 5.1”
not really – this works fine with FCP 5.04.[izoneguy] “For the Frame rate converter to work you must duplicate your clip and
then drag it into another folder, usually in another project.”as long as the 59.94 clip is at the root level of the browser the FRC should function properly- but the content needs to not have have been in a folder or imported into a bin. This tool was created originally for the the Varicam and the same rules apply- Shane’s tutorial is a great reference.
[izoneguy] “Now if you shot 24p which is really 29.97 with Pulldown you must
use Cinema Tools. Then Reverse TeleCine.”Nope –use the FRC for that also. Screw learning Cinema Tools when the 720p material can be handled with one click ease when using the FRC in Final Cut. If you do not start the Rev Telecine in Cinema Tools and you are not on the the 0 or 5 frame in the cadence it can cause weird visual anomalies
the default cadence for redundant frames for 24p material in 720p DVCPROHD is the industry standard 3:2 pulldown. there is not advanced pulldown in progressive content.
gary
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL -
[izoneguy] “Now if you shot 24p which is really 29.97 with Pulldown you must
use Cinema Tools. Then Reverse TeleCine.”“Nope –use the FRC for that also. Screw learning Cinema Tools when the 720p material can be handled with one click ease when using the FRC in Final Cut. If you do not start the Rev Telecine in Cinema Tools and you are not on the the 0 or 5 frame in the cadence it can cause weird visual anomalies
the default cadence for redundant frames for 24p material in 720p DVCPROHD is the industry standard 3:2 pulldown. there is not advanced pulldown in progressive content.”
What are you talking about. I just did a test to make sure I don’t insert foot in mouth. Shooting with HVX 200 at 1080 24p or 720 24p which is 29.97 with pulldown added. When I run FRC it says “Only DVCPRO HD 720p 59.94 fps media files are supported”
So if you want a 24p clip to be a 23.976 clip vs. 29.97 you must learn and use Cinema Tools.
The 720 59.94 mode is popular with VariCam owners because that is the only way to get smooth slo-mo from the VariCam, The HVX 200 can shoot at 60 fps on P2 cards.
With the HVX200 48 fps is popular also because you can always speed the clip up 200% to get back to 24p. -
Okay folks:
Thanks for all the responses. A few issues remain:
I took Gary’s tip about putting the file at the root level and got the FRC to work. The end result? The timecode is zeroed and not carried over from the original (which in itself is not a big issue). Of course, there is no audio (which is a complete drag to say the least…). But the problem is, the file is longer than the original. From an original file of 1:36:00 in duration, I’m getting a 2:00:00 file back. There are repeated frames periodically (seems about every 20th frame or so?).
All I want to do is get the 24P content out of the 60fps source. This shouldn’t be so hard? Or is Jeremy ultimately right, that an upgrade to 5.1.1 is in order, then I could just remove the frames properly upon import? (I would have upgraded right from the get-go, if it wasn’t such a pain to send my beloved disks to the US for ‘trade’.)
Any more advice? Thanks again for your help. Cow dudes rock.
Best, JIM.
OSX.4.3
Dual 2.7 G5
3.5 GB RAM
Radeon X800 XT
Kona 2 / K-Box
Seritek 1.2 TB RAID
AVID XPRESS PRO/MOJO -
[Jim Blokland] “I took Gary’s tip about putting the file at the root level and got the FRC to work. The end result? The timecode is zeroed and not carried over from the original (which in itself is not a big issue)”
that is correct –Using the FRC will strip both the timecode and audio off – it has too!
You are changing the timebase of your footage – and because the FRC handles the content based on what you shot – it is relying on you to re-conform the timecode- – Say you shoot 12 Fps to play back at 24fps. – are you really expecting FCP to recompute the original 1 min of 60 fps content that is now playing back for 2 minutes at 24fps – where are the additional TC numbering coming from? and that original audio is now playing back 2x as fast. – Bit the FRC has had to strip out the 4 redundant frames ( then math is 12frames divided into 60 frames = 5) so for every frame there are 4 additional identical frames for every new frame you want to capture.
[Jim Blokland] “But the problem is, the file is longer than the original. From an original file of 1:36:00 in duration, I’m getting a 2:00:00 file back. There are repeated frames periodically (seems about every 20th frame or so?).”
did you conform to 24.0 or 23.98?
it sounds as if you chose 24.0 by mistake.
also check all of the boxes in the FRC (remove dupe frames, make new self contained file, import into FCP.)gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL -
[izoneguy] “Shooting with HVX 200 at 1080 24p or 720 24p which is 29.97 with pulldown added. “
first 1080 is always laid to the cards a 60i the HVX always records 1080 content as 60 interlace- that content is not 29.97 it is 59.94
720p24 content is laid down as 59.94 progressive frames- and yes in both of these cases the industry standard 3:2 pulldown is added.
[izoneguy] “When I run FRC it says “Only DVCPRO HD 720p 59.94 fps media files are supported””
The software FRC does not work with 1080 materials because the FRC was created to work with progressive video from the Varicam which only does 720 progressive.
[izoneguy] “So if you want a 24p clip to be a 23.976 clip vs. 29.97 you must learn and use Cinema Tools.”
now what are you talking about- 24p in Video in 23.976 (rounded to 23.98) The HVX200 cannot record 24.0 frame rate.this sounds as if you are working at the 30pN mode( recording the flagged frames only) and not in 24p ( which records 24 “flagged” frames within the 60fps)
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL
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