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Sony EX1r LCD screen Gamma
Hi I have been using an EX1r for some time now and was always a little suspicious of the accuracy of the auto Iris or more to the point whether the image I saw in the LCD when using auto Iris was accurate, as it always looked too dark to me. Always too busy to do anything about it I eventually found a few spare hours today to make some tests. What I found horrified me. Not so much the lightness or darkness of what I was being guided by visually in the LCD but the gamma was way out compared to my computer screen.
I know I do not have a balanced monitor for video but I do send a lot of graphic work to professional print houses and what I see on my screen is pretty accurate. ( So far over the years I have had no surprises when the jobs have been produced.) Even if my monitor was a little out it couldn’t be as much adrift as the pictures I am seeing. I have uploaded one here. ( I hope it comes through O.K. as It’s my first pic upload to this site. ) I have looked and looked through the menus and tried to do some research on the web but I cannot find a way to change the gamma of the LCD screen. Maybe it’s not possible, but it would be nice to be able to match up what I see on the LCD screen to what I see on my computer otherwise I am driving blind, so to speak. Please have a look at the picture I have sent through which shows the EX1’s LCD screen flipped out on the right with the computer screen behind showing the same shot in my FCP timeline. The R/H still looks monotone here but actually did have some colour but it was blue and cold looking. Shot in natural light on a Grey day in dull conditions. My usual temptation would be to ignore the auto Iris and manually adjust it to get a brighter picture. That was supposed to be the be all and end all of the test so you can imagine how shocked I was to see such a colour difference as well.
Looking forward to your thoughts. ( P.S I have to shoot a wedding tomorrow and this has really thrown my confidence.)
Many thanks
BRIAN.
brian paterson
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18 Replies
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If you need assistance with exposure start using the histogram and set the zebras to 95-100 so you know what is starting to clip. A big part of shooting is setting the exposure manually to give it the look you want.
You should be able to correct the LCD color/contrast within the menu setting, however I have been on jobs with multiple like cameras and found many different looks from each of these EX LCD’s and the only way to know what we were really seeing was to use a professional external monitor with a vector scope.Also explore your Picture Profile setting for advanced gamma setting.
Good Luck
Michael Palmer -
Hi Michael thanks for your reply, the only adjustments there seems to be are for Contrast, Brightness and Saturation. However none of these affect the gamma, i.e. the warmth or coolness of the colours.
Is there actually anything that you know of which will do this or am I wasting my time searching for something in the settings which dosen’t actually exist.I have looked at the picture profile settings as well and tried everything but as far as I can see these settings have nothing to do with altering the temperature of the LCD screen on it’s own.
So how can I match up the LCD screen to the temperature of the image I see on my computer.
I don’t think a professional external monitor has anything to do with this scenario. What I simply want is to be able to see on the LCD screen what I will eventually see on my computer when I ingest the footage. Easily done by matching the colours to each other. If they are both wrong or both right it makes no difference just as long as they are the same and I can see in the LCD screen the image as it will appear in my computer. At least if they match I have a fighting chance rather than trying to guess how much more blue or red the image will come out at after I have eight hours of footage to edit, (and consequently to colour correct if I have guessed wrong. )
Hopefully there is a way somehow but i’m not banking on it.
Regards BRIAN.
brian paterson
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You are right and wrong in my opinion. Yes, the colors are different, but in my opinion that’s not because of the cam, but because of your mac screen. Those screens are always way to yellow.
I use the cinema display (the older beautiful not shiny ones) and use this for coloring (not for broadcast, only web). I know this screen, it’s always more yellow.
I find the picture of my ex1r very ‘correct’ to what i see in the finished production. (i always put in a lot more black though).
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Thanks Jw, but can we please stick to the original question which was: Is there any way to adjust the colour of the flip out screen on an EX1. – Not the contrast, not the brightness, not the saturation. – Just the colour.
Regarding the other issue you raise about Mac Sceens being too yellow it all depends how you set up the gamma on them. As I said in my original post, I send a lot of high quality artwork to print and the resulting work is pretty true to what I see on the screen. However the point I was trying to make is that I would like to be able to match the colour of the EX1’s LCD screen to the colour I see on my Mac.
– Not the other way around. At least that way when I film something and I choose a picture profile in the camera that I like the look of I am not then going to get something so completely different when I get back home and begin the edit. I don’t see why that is so difficult to understand yet people bang on an on about colour balanced monitors. I used to run a company reproducing fine art greetings cards and we used the same printer that the top museums used. We wasted hours and hours every month discussing the accuracy of the original to their print. In the end I gave up quibbling about small differences and just went with the mantra ” If it looks great , it is great.” because really it makes no difference if it looks marginally yellow or blue as long as it’s not way way off and nasty to look at. However most important thing in those days was for me to see what I was going to be sending to the printer. Or at least knowing what he was going to see when he recieved it. So when I scanned a transparency into my computer and brought it into photoshop it had to reflect the same colours on screen as the original and this was then checked against the printing proofs before going on the press. So the colours were all the same all the way through. Otherwise if I couldn’t match the colours up then how would i know which was correct. What I want with the LCD is a simpler version of what I just described . I just want to match the LCD to what I see on my computer screen. Is that so much to ask without going into all the technicalities of colour theories. No I don’t think so. So if anyone knows whether what I am asking is possible ( or not possible ) please let me know.Many Thanks
BRIAN PATERSON.brian paterson
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Ok. I didn’t know that was your original question. I meant not to worry about it. I also work at a graphic designer and they also use the mac screens for print and it also works for them.
But for your problem, I don’t think that you can change the colour of the lcd in that way. (maybe in the hidden menu where you also black balance…don’t know).
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Brian, I’ve read through the thread and I do see the point that you are trying to make and your question. However, others have attempted to explain that there is no connection between what your computer screen shows and what your EX camera screen shows. The camera is presumably showing a correct interpretation of your camera settings. That is exposure, focus and white balance. The screen has been calibrated by Sony in the fist instance so you should try reverting to all default factory settings to test this. As to white balance, I often set my own Kelvin setting (through the PP menu) if I think that the screen is showing too cold or too warm a picture for my taste. I’ve never had a nasty surprise when viewing footage ON A PROFESSIONAL EXTERNAL MONITOR in my edit suite.
I would never rely on my computer screen for an accurate picture, OK for editing maybe but not reliable colour wise. I’m puzzled why you think that you can rely on yours.
Michael Slowe
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HI Michael,
Thanks for the reply however we all have to make the best of what equipment we have ( or can afford ) there is no way on earth I can afford a Professional External monitor so I have to work with the screen I have on my Mac. If it is good enough for good accurate professional print proofing then I can’t see it will be that far out for producing wedding footage on DVD and in fact I don’t see a lot of difference ( if any ) between the footage on my screen after I have edited and colour graded it and the picture I get on my TV when I play the finished DVD. In fact I just made my first Blu Ray and was amazed at the quality all round. So all the rest I can control and can trust, however the bit that is always a guessing game is what the colours are going to come out like after I do the shoot. They might look great on the camera LCD but that is no guarantee they will look the same when I get back home. If I could adjust the LCD to match the gamma on my Mac, then me, my camera and my mac would at least be reading from the same script. It dosen’t matter if it’s correct just as long as it is the same.
I don’t know how many times I have to say that or why it is not sinking in. You say you would never reply on a computer screen for an accurate picture. Well what about all the wedding trailers and other stuff presented to clients online. Are they not looking at the material on a computer screen.? I make a lot of stuff on a computer for people who are going to view it on a computer and many do the same. The theory of colour and all the talk between the geeks and the so called professionals is mainly bunkum. We all see colour differently anyhow but we will never know how the other person sees it. Sure it’s necessary to have standards and all that stuff but to people who just want to be wowed by great colour the different of a shade or two means nothing just as long as it looks great. I have worked with colour for 45 years and have developed a pretty good eye for it. Every application I have at my disposal allows me to tweak the colour to my liking except this LCD screen and I’m damed if I am going to adjust every other thing I own to match up to that one screen, because frankly I don’t trust it and there is no way it is ever going to allow me to test it so it seems.
Many Thanks for your reply.BRIAN PATERSON.
brian paterson
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Brian
Your chasing your own tail here.There is no camera where you can adjust the gamma on the LCD screen only.. for the good reason that its meant to be giving you a fair representation of the gamma you have set for your camera,not the screen.. defeats the whole object.. no one works like this in the TV world.. thats it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNWxQuvpscI
Good Luck
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THanks,
I don’t work in the TV world.
I produce wedding videos and post them on the internet. That is where people view them. On computer monitors. Probably not as good as the one I have in most cases. That said do I understand what you are trying to say but then why does the EX1 have contrast, brightness and saturation adjustment if it has a “fair” adjustment built in as you say. Why not add colour temperature as well.
This camera is great up to a point but it is aimed at the lower end of the budget spectrum where people who would buy this would not have all the expensive monitoring equipment that TV companies would have so we have to compensate and make the best of what we’ve got. The ability to match colours to our “cheap” monitors would go a long way to helping us see so we are not guessing at what is going to come out. I am not talking of massive amounts, but just to be able to tweak here and there to taste would help. Nobody is going to force the user to ignore Sony’s setting but to have the choice would be good.
At the end of the day it’s all going to be colour graded to what I see on my screen anyhow so I might as well have the ability to set the lcd to match my screen in the first place and save a lot of extra work in post after the event.
Your comments seem to be in line with most professionals who have all the expensive equipment and who look down their noses and lecture the rest of us from their exalted positions.Try to appreciate what the rest of us have to work with and not only from your own perspective.
Many Thanks
BRIAN PATERSON.
brian paterson
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