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Avid can’t match FCP 7 quality
I’ve been trying to online in MC 6.5.4 using Alexa Prores4444 master files, AMA relinked to the timeline that came from the offline edit.
Problem is after I get everything linked and checked, when I export the Prores4444 master flat file, Avid breaks the quality.
Compare with the original Alexa files in FCP7 on a good reference monitor you can clearly see a difference. Any Prores4444 that passes through
MC looks to be half resolution. I set the export to Prores4444 millions of colors+. The timeline quality is set to 10bit but I wonder if I have to set that somewhere else in MC for export.
You can see the missing lines on edges and shiny surfaces and the softness overall.
Sure would be easier to just online in MC 6 since that’s what the editors use, but I always have to AAF into FCP7 with Boris transfer and online in FCP7.
FCP exports just fine with identical quality to the original dailies. Now I know Avid doesn’t really fully support Quicktime but I wonder if
anyone has conquered this and knows what I am missing in Avid. Please don’t respond if you work in 422. I have to assemble the master 444 camera files without changing anything so the colorist has the pure raw file.Thanks!
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12 Replies
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Do a mixdown within Avid in an RGB 709 project choosing ProRes 444 then export with “same as source”. Exporting and setting the codec is now up to the whims of the QuickTime engine.
Michael
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Same exact results. Avid creates an inferior picture quality when compared to the same file in FCP7.
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Where are you determining that difference? Source/Record monitor? Full Screen Display? Quicktime Player?
In 6.5 and later, ProRes is a native codec, so if you fast import it or AMA-link & consolidate it, then export Same As Source, not a single thing about the source will be changed. This would be 100% transparent. -
I AMA link to Alexa Prores4444. I then export the timeline same as source just like you say. Then compared to the exact same process in FCP7, the file from Avid is soft. On a frame leader you can actually see the missing lines and bad edges in the text. The files can be compared in FCP or Quicktime, just switch between them and it’s obvious. The colorist at Fotokem first pointed this out on a high rez monitor. If you are working in 422 it might work as you say, but 444 is a no go. I wish it worked, this makes my online much harder and I wish I could get the quality I need straight out of the Avid.
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And the source file is 1920×1080?
When you say you AMA-link and then export Same As Source, do you first consolidate at any point (methinks one cannot export AMA-linked sources Same As Source). -
I believe Job is correct. Try AMA link to the file in RGB 709 project. Consolidate the clip, them export the consolidated clip with Same As Source.
Michael
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I’ve done all this and more. No matter what method I use the resulting export is soft. I am directly comparing it to the same clips exported from FCP7 and Resolve. The last show I did this on successfully was cut on MC 5.5.3. They have broken the Prores444 export in MC 6.5.4
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In 5.x, ProRes was not a native codec, so it cannot have been the same workflow.
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Maybe it worked because it wasn’t a native codec in Avid as far as transcode etc. I linked to AMA Prores4444 and rendered Prores4444 out of 5.0.3 and 5.5.3 for the entire run of Warehouse 13 etc.etc. I have an entire raid full of shows with clips rendered from MC 5, all using Prores4444.
The computer has Prores from the Final Cut install and I guess Avid just got out of the way with MC5. You can “Send to Quicktime” and choose the Apple Prores4444 codec and use it to render a clip without any change. I wish I could get the MC6 bins to work in 5 at this point. -
Actually, the fact that it is a native codec implies that nothing would at any point need to be modified in any way. The v5 workflow you describe implies a fully QT-based export (with a re-transcode).
Also, you mention “Send to QT”, which is something very different than what I was talking about. If you use that “Send to” command, you are using some type of export preset.
When I wrote about “Same as Source”, I am not talking about selecting the same codec as your source is. I am talking about using File->Export, selecting Quicktime Movie, and clicking the “Same As Source” radio button.
I did a small test and I simply cannot see any difference between source and result, not in MC and not in QT Player afterwards. What I did was:
– create a 1080p24 RGB709 project in MC
– Do a Fast Import of a ProRes 4444 source file (Fast Import meaning that MC asks me to preserve the resolution of the source file when importing, and I acknowledge).
– Do an AMA-link to that same ProRes 4444 source file into the same project
– Consolidate a copy of that AMA-linked clip in MC (so consolidating into Avid MXF Media)I edited each of these into a sequence of their own, then chose File->Export, Selected the Same As Source button, chose ‘601/709’ as the color space, and exported. I don’t see any difference at any point.
Here are the results as well as the originals: https://www.terburg.com/EVEN/140507b_APR4444_Test.zipFurther thinking also made me wonder if there can be interlaced/progressive issues at play, since you mention noticing quality issues on lines in a frame leader and text. Is your source file progressive or interlaced, and when you bring things into MC, is it a P or an I project, and what does it think the source is: P or I? Are you seeing any motion adapters?
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