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Avid Editing with 23.976fps / Converting to 25fps?
Hi everyone,
I’m editing a documentary on Avid and I have been given HD footage at 23.976fps.
I’ve been told that this frame rate can be problematic and that it has implications for the online edit and sound mix of the film – basically, most people I speak to suggest that I convert the footage to 25fps from the get-go. I’m editing the film in Australia, the film is primarily for festivals and gallery events but also for TV broadcast.
Not only do I not know how to convert the frame rate of files (endless After Effects tutorials are no doubt in my future) but I’m wondering if it is in fact the wisest option. I’m confident using Avid for editing but as someone who’s just finished film school, the very initial setting up of a project is not something I have a lot of experience in. I’ve been told that ‘if you edit in 23.976 then your online editor will need an NTSC deck’ – I don’t even know what this means!
If anyone is able to clarify or offer advice about whether it is worth converting all of my footage before I begin working, I’d be very grateful. I’m very confused and would appreciate any advice!!
Cheers,
Nat -
3 Replies
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23.976 is an NTSC format. It’s the filmic frame rate we use, as it is very close to 24fps….the frame rate of film. But if you are in a country that is PAL, you should have been shooting 25fps and editing 25fps from the start.
Now it is best to stick with 23.976 thru until the end. Meaning edit 23.98, online 23.98, mix 23.98…output 23.98. And then convert that output to 25fps. That’s my suggestion. Let’s see what others say.
Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Hi Shane,
Thanks for your reply. Yes that certainly seems to be the most logical way to go about the project! I just have to establish whether 23.976fps ‘until the end’ is practical given that almost all online editors I’ve spoken with are advising me to convert the footage! I don’t even really understand whether it’s just as easy for an online editor/ sound mixer to work at 23.976 or whether their equipment is specifically designed for one or the other?! (Oh that question really shows how much of a beginner I am, doesn’t it!)
In your experience, does output to 25fps result in a significant loss of quality in visual/sound?
Cheers,
Natalie -
Traditionally, most of the challenges I have seen with 23.976 in PAL based countries is in the mix stage where the rooms are set up and synced to 25Hz. It should be less of an issue these days though but monitoring could still be an issue.
As far as conversion goes (either now or later), is what type of conversion? The better quality conversion is to do frame for frame where everything is now 4.1% faster and pitch is now .7 semitone off (for those with perfect pitch and you’re doing a doc on symphonies…).
Or you can do “maintain duration” type conversion where frames/fields are added to compensate for the additional frames per second which can add motion artifacts on movement such as pans, zooms, motion within frame, etc, But in this case, no change to the audio sync or pitch (if needed).
Mix & Match within Media Composer is the latter, but would allow you to get started on the editing. Was this all single system recording or double system and sync? It’s going to come down to how your online will get and by whom, as well as sound post. Picture, as Shane points out might be better served to stay 23.976 but audio post has always been pickier in these issues.
I’ll be glad to jump on a skype call with your post supervisor or whomever to discuss if needed. Either way there are costs involved and thy should look at all the steps to make the best decision.
Michael
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