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Forgive the repeat, still looking for GPU understanding for preview only…
Hey All,
Again, I apologize for repeating a subject that has been gone over and over again. But I really need some clarity and guidance.
I just updated my system to the newest i7 Haswell (4790), and 16GB ram, FAST Samsung SSD and a good MSI board, boots up from off in under 10 seconds to Windows 7 Ultimate!! Still using my AMD Radeon 6870 for GPU.I did not upgrade to a faster GPU due to all the mess with GPU rendering, Kepler cards, GTX’s being slow (after 6xx series) and the like.
My NEEDS are NOT GPU rendering only Preview quality. Still with this new system I am dealing with NOT being able to get 29.97fps preview on anything OTHER than Preview Full or lower, during crossfades, using Canon’s MP4 formats 35mbps from my Canon G30/XA25’s as well as other HD formats.
To gain better preview, my understanding is that I CAN upgrade to a faster AMD chip (7xxx series or R7 or R9) but which is really going to help me the best in price/performance. The R9 270 & 270x vs the 290 or 290x, is there REALLY that much better for the cost? Also, I am using the Radeon HD 6870, am I going to see new card smoke my old one, or am I in for a shock and will gain minimal preview increase?
I am not looking into the NVIDIA stuff at all with all the problems they are experiencing.
So in a nutshell, what can I do and what is a $200 card range to get better preview? OR is it not worth it and I should just bite the bullet and use proxies for editing? I hesitate to do so because I often have a TON of track when doing shoots with multiple takes.
Again, I appreciate EVERYONE’s time and effort on these posts, and cannot tell you how I use the knowledge shared here…
Best!
Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind’s Eye Audio/Video Productions -
18 Replies
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[Xavier (Scott) Francis] “My NEEDS are NOT GPU rendering only Preview quality. Still with this new system I am dealing with NOT being able to get 29.97fps preview on anything OTHER than Preview Full or lower, during crossfades, using Canon’s MP4 formats 35mbps from my Canon G30/XA25’s as well as other HD formats.”
I too would love to hear from Vegas Pro editors with newer ATI cards because I have the older Radeon HD 5870 so I don’t know if the newer cards are significantly faster with Vegas Pro timeline playback.
Perhaps if you could post a few seconds of raw footage from your camera we could all download it and test on our workstations? You may be able to upload it here to the COW or use DropBox or something (I really like DropBox for sharing large files).
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Thanks John, will 13hr day today, I will try to get ya something tomorrow if possible…
Really appreciate your help!!
Best,
Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind’s Eye Audio/Video Productions -
[John Rofrano] “I too would love to hear from Vegas Pro editors with newer ATI cards because I have the older Radeon HD 5870 so I don’t know if the newer cards are significantly faster with Vegas Pro timeline playback. “
I have a 7950 card which should be the same perf as an R9 280. I’ll run and/or time anything.
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Hey Guys,
Here is a link to download two file types from my Canon Cameras as well as the MP4 created by a Blackmagic ATEM TVS and a converted m2ts format (from the ATEM file) type that I use as well. The last two are based on some of you and a discussion we had about the files the ATEM creates and issues with Vegas.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kas6fumg741dxzr/AADCLIdJ4wyY2wKbGiuI_VLsa
They are smaller/short files. Again, my issue is when I do transitions from one lane/track to another (using envelopes)or other transitions, I get frames dropped. It is a real pain to not have these clear as to watch for camera movement, etc.
My last big project was a 2+ hr play that I shot with 3 cameras and created an MP4 with the ATEM switcher of all the live shoot. I also capture from each individual camera and have a total of 4 video tracks (camera L, C, R, and the ATEM stream). The ATEM stream was converted the same way as the above m2ts file. I line up all the files in Vegas and do some fine tuning from the converted ATEM file and would use the original camera footage when a bad crossfade or when the wrong camera was up. So over the 2hr video I may have had 100 or so crossfades (via envelopes) from the main ATEM to the original camera files.
As I was editing, again, when I go from one event track to another I lose fps…and can only use Preview Half or Full to stay around 29.97 FPS. My project was set to 29.97 since the ATEM stream was that and not the 60p of the MP4 files.Hope this makes sense and thanks for all your help!!
Best
Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind’s Eye Audio/Video Productions -
I downloaded the file. Anything specific I should try?
I did try some things based on your comments and I have some comments.
60p video is always going to stress Vegas to its limits. 1080p60 the real problem. This stresses the video decoder and the decoder is always CPU only.
Even in a 30p project the 60p video is still fully decoded before they drop every other frame.
One of the videos was 1088. This adds an interpolation to the playback when your project is 1080. This is more overhead than pure 1080 footage. I noticed Vegas showing a different in the display of the 1088 footage in preview and good modes.
I noticed that the performance of a single track crossfade is much better than two events on separate tracks with events with a overlapping fade out/in. This makes some sense. Only one “effect” computing verses two effects.
I noticed the the Quicktime file, “from ATEM TVS.mp4” file was worse on crossfades than the other files. Playback rate really dropped on this one during a crossfade, whereas the others did not.
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Thanks Norman!
The ATEM stream is janky as it is missing some headers for SVP to read it properly. John R. has helped me with that, one reason I converted it to the m2ts format.
Which file was 1088? Hopefully NOT the MP4 from the cameras.
Also, I have no option when using multiple cameras, I HAVE to have them on multiple tracks, I need to see what each has when choosing what to use. That is unless you have another way of doing it.
What GPU card are you using and what are your result per file?
Thanks again so much!!
Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind’s Eye Audio/Video Productions -
[Scott Francis] “What GPU card are you using and what are your result per file?”
AMD 7950. What exactly do you want me to try. Benchmarking is no good without precision. Best thing would be to upload a VEG file with the things you would like tested/benchmarked. I already have the video files.
And remember that GPU is only once part of editing. Without strong effect use, probably a smaller one.
[Scott Francis] “Which file was 1088?”
Converted From ATEM TVS.m2ts[Scott Francis] “Also, I have no option when using multiple cameras, I HAVE to have them on multiple tracks, I need to see what each has when choosing what to use.”
I don’t know about older version of Vegas but Version 12 and on has a multi-cam editing feature which is quite nice. I only used it once. Very easy once you have the cameras sync’d.
https://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/cutting_with_the_vegas_pro_multi-camera_editing_toolsJohn can talk to you about VASST infinityCam and Ultimate S utilities.
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Thanks again Norman!
I would ask how your GPU handles each file playback during transitions across event lanes. Seeing if it can stay at full FPS and Best – full and so forth (seeing what it can playback). That would help me to decide if I should upgrade or not.
Again, greatly appreciate it!!
Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind’s Eye Audio/Video Productions -
[Scott Francis] “I would ask how your GPU handles each file playback during transitions across event lanes. Seeing if it can stay at full FPS and Best – full and so forth (seeing what it can playback). That would help me to decide if I should upgrade or not.”
I can playback crossfades between “Canon 1.MTS” and “Canon 2.MP4” at full frame rates (29.97) using Best(Full) with the media on a single track. That dips down momentarily to about ~27 fps if I place them on separate tracks. This is because you are now compositing two tracks together. If I switch to Best(Auto) I get 29.97 playback on multiple tracks all day long.
This is in a 1920×1080-60i project (29.970 fps) with Resample Disabled on the 59.940 fps “Canon 2.MP4” footage. Feel free to make a project and upload it using this media if you think we are not using the media in the same way that you are.
[Xavier (Scott) Francis] “I just updated my system to the newest i7 Haswell (4790), and 16GB ram, FAST Samsung SSD and a good MSI board, boots up from off in under 10 seconds to Windows 7 Ultimate!! Still using my AMD Radeon 6870 for GPU.”
Once again this is on my 2008 Mac Pro Xeon E5462 2.88Ghz 8-core with 16GB Memory and ATI Radeon HD 5870 with the Catalyst 14.10 drivers running Windows 7 Pro 64-bit in Bootcamp that I picked up for $740 on eBay. Not a bad for a 6 year old computer! 😉
So why aren’t you seeing what I’m seeing since your ATI card is just a little slower than mine? Could it be that you only have 4-cores and I have 8-cores and timeline playback is still primarily CPU intensive? You have 4 x 3.6Ghz which is 14.4Ghz total and I have 8 x 2.88Ghz which is 23.04Ghz total so I have more processing power available.
Are you using 59.940 footage in a 29.97 timeline? and are you disabling resample? This is the single greatest thing you can do to keep the frame rate up when your source framerate doesn’t match your project framerate.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Thanks John…
I have just started to disable resample on the 60p clips. That does seem to help a bit with preview.
So my main question is WHY is preview still so CPU heavy when we are utilizing GPU preview? This doesn’t seem to be logical (at least in my mind) as I have been chasing this end of the rainbow since SVP11!!!With all this said, should I not bother updating my GPU?
Again, I really appreciate the help….Also, how useful is multicam editing in SVP vs the way I am handling it? My concern is from what I remember when SVP introduced this, is that once they are lined up, if there is a sync issue, on can be out of luck, and also that I can’t see all the video at one time…but I may be mistaken.
Again and as always I appreciate your help and input!!
Best
Xavier (Scott) Francis
Mind’s Eye Audio/Video Productions
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