[Todd Terry]

Hey Rick, have you actually been able to try any of these instruments? Or seen them with your own eyeballs?

I love fresnels, but haven’t been sure whether or not the LED fresnel technology was “quite there” yet. I’d be interested to know whether they act as true fresnels… truly focusable, and more importantly really cuttable with barn doors, flags, etc. If so, we’re finally at a really good thing.

I haven’t looked at them much because the last time I gave the LED heads a gander everything pretty much was still AC powered… and I have almost completely cut the cord now and don’t consider anything that I can’t battery power (unless I’m shooting on stage, HMIs are the only stingers I ever run now… period). Oops… I just realized I lied, I did use Kinos on location a couple of weeks ago, but that was the first time in ages that I had to go looking for AC power.

Will be interesting to hear what you decide on….

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

I can’t speak to the cheaper units personally, but I’ll speak for someone else (don’t you love when people do that)….

I do recall that someone on the COW (I’m 99% sure it was Rick Wise) tried the Generay units… he liked the design and the accessory attachment points (built in umbrella holder, etc.), but said the units were pretty bad. I can’t remember if it was a color shift issue, or that they were noisy, or what… but there was some factor that rendered them unusable, and he ended up sending them back. This was a little while back, I remember being very disappointed in the review because I liked the design and had toyed with the idea of getting some myself.

If you want a very small/light unit that you can fly on a boom, the tiny little TorchLEDs from Switronix are great. We’ve flown one on the end of a 10-foot boom as a talent backlight before with no issues. Bicolor, too. Very inexpensive, and very punchy. Battery life could be better, but it’s decent.

Maybe he’ll chime in. Rick, was that you?

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

For television broadcast, for 1080 files you should always deliver your Mpeg2 files as interlaced… never as progressive.

It has probably been looking “right” to you because you’ve likely been looking at it only on a progressive computer monitor, probably. If you could see it on an interlaced CRT monitor or on a LCD/LED/OLED/Plasma monitor that is a real TV monitor (even though progressive) you’d probably notice the difference.

Progressive files look great on a computer monitor, and 24p progressive files look great on a TV monitor (especially a monitor that can display true 24p). But while 29.97 interlaced files look great (and correct) on a TV monitor, they do indeed look terrible on a computer monitor.

This is a battle that we all fight all the time, and you have to be a little watchful of it. At my place we have monitors of several flavors… in two suites the computer monitors are LCDs but the editor’s main production monitor is LED, and there is also a plasma monitors for clients, and a standard-def CRT monitor in both. It’s kind of amazing that something that can be perfect on one monitor will look terrible on one of the others, so we keep watch to make sure it always looks right no matter what flavor of screen a home viewer will be using. The CRTs are the ones, even in standard def, that will most readily show a flaw or interlacing error. If it looks great/right on the CRT, nine times out of 10 it will look great on all the others, too.

I had a minute to kill so I snapped a pic to show you the setup that I usually look at in my suite…

I’m kinda surprised that no television station has rejected a progressive file… at least for 1080. 1080 can obviously be 1080i or 1080p, but broadcasters use 1080i, upper field first. Obviously all 720p files are progressive by definition (no such thing as 720i), so if you ever are called on to deliver a 720p file that will be a progressive file, but the higher frame rate makes them act/appear/function as interlaced when they are actually broadcast.

Those stations are probably actually converting your file to interlaced, or they are simply playing them as-is and since they are transmitting an interlaced signal in the end you are getting the same result… which is the bad 4:1 progression (with the incorrect duplicated frame) rather than the correct 3:2 frames/fields. That duplicated frame can definitely add to the “judder” look, quite a bit actually.

Let us know if it works better for you in the future.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

Hi Jeff…

I might not be tons of help on your exact methods or settings… we don’t use Compressor (or any Apple products at all actually, except I think there’s one ancient Mac upstairs in Graphics that is a paperweight).

It’s easy to check to see if your 3:2 pulldown is working correct, though. Take one of your finished output 60i files (preferably a second or so that has some action or movement), and click through it frame by frame, while watching it on an interlaced CRT monitor (or even your tube television from 2003). You’ll readily be able to see the 3-and-2 pattern. You should see three frames in a row that look progressive… totally stock-still frozen. These will be followed by the next two frames that are obviously interlaced… on a CRT you’ll see the image vibrating between the two sets of fields when you park on that frame. Those will then be followed by three more progressive and two more interlaced, and the sequence repeats until the end.

Maybe someone else in here can help you with the Compressor issues… but you did mention “frame blending.” Usually something that says “frame blending” is an option that you would never want to turn on, unless you are using footage at something other than its native frame rate… for example, if you want to take 24fps footage and use it at 16fps for a slight slow-mo look… that’s where frame blending can help. But for something like converting 24p to 60i…. no, never.

Sorry I can’t be of more help….

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

National spots (well, at least one with a cinematic look rather than a video look), are almost invariably shot at 23.976p. Even 35mm real film commercial shoots (those that still exist) at shot at 23.976fps rather than true 24fps. Although it does happen, you won’t find too many commercials shot at 30p. 24p is by far the norm.

Of the two ways this is usually done, one is to shoot at 24p, convert the footage to 60i (or just edit the 24p footage on a 60i timeline), and output the final broadcast master at 60i.

The other way is the way we do it…. we shoot at 24p, and then we also edit at 24p, and create a 24p master. Then for broadcast we will output a 60i version (upper field first) for television stations. That creates the perfect 3:2 pulldown that looks right. That also allows us to retain the final project with a 24p master which is both what we really want it to look like, plus is much better for non-interlaced usages (such as when clients also want a version to put on their websites or YouTube, etc.).

If your footage looks too juddery, a couple of things might be happening… firstly your camera moves might be too fast. They need to be no faster than if you were shooting real film, not the speeds you might be used to with a video camera at 60i. The ASC manual I think even has a table in it that will tell you maximum pan and tilt speeds for various focal lengths… but just your eyeball should tell you (I’ve never used the tables). The other thing that could be happening is that you might be shooting with too high a shutter speed. A “normal” shutter speed is “one over twice the frame rate.” So, if you are shooting 24fps, the optimal frame rate would be 1/48th. That rate will give you the amount of motion blur you need for your brain to interpret the footage as smooth. If you purposely jack up the frame rate (or accidently do so), the higher it goes the more strobby the footage will look (the “narrow shutter” look that you’ll see used to make action movies look more “actiony”).

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

I don’t do anything in ProRes, ever. (well, unless someone gives me some ProRes stock footage they need me to use)

We shoot with the C300PL, edit with its native Canon .MXF files… our edit systems are all PC-based machines running Adobe CSC, they are all Matrox MX02 machines (except one older Matrox AXIO), so for masters we create uncompressed 24p Matrox AVI files… for broadcast outlets we create whatever flavor of 60i files the individual broadcaster needs, which are usually mpeg2 files. For computer use such as YouTube we create 24p H.264 .mp4 files.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

Well, you’ll find commercials shot with all kinds of cameras.

True, for really high-end (national) spots, there will be a fair number of Alexa shoots. Lots of RED shoots, too. I shoot almost nothing but broadcast commercials, and right now I’m shooting pretty much exclusively with the Canon C300.

I also use really good lenses, even a great camera format is no good unless the glass is great. I use the same lenses now (Leitz-Panavision superspeed primes) that I used when I was shooting spots on 35mm film (haven’t done that in a while).

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

[Robert Trip] ” My point here is this if your always shooting for one outlet then make sure that outlet meets that requirement.”

Yes, make sure your final output meets their requirements. Not your shooting. Shoot for the look you want, not for what the output requirements are. That’s a post issue, not a shooting issue at all.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

[Robert Trip] “. If you are on public property like at a park or street not obstructing people or property then no.”

Try that in certain cities like, say, Las Vegas and see how far it gets you. You’ll be enjoying a lengthy chat with bicycle police that swoop in on you in no time flat… demanding to see your permit for shooting in that park or on that city street.

State film commissions can, yes, be very helpful as to pointing you to the info you need. However, actual film permits are almost exclusively the purview of individual cities.

That’s an easy call to the city hall in whatever city you are shooting in. In the vast majority of cases, unless you are shooting in a city where a lot of production regularly goes on, then no actual permits are needed.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com

[Todd Terry]

[Robert Trip] “Rule of thumb if you know what your output is then shoot at what ever frame rate you plan to distribute on.”

Whoa… sorry but no no noooooo.

You need to do a final output at the proper frame rate for your distribution, but you should shoot at whatever rate you want the project to look like.

For example, 95% of what I produce are TV commercials, destined for broadcast television. That would be 29.97fps interlaced, of course (60i). But I’m usually going for a cinematic look, not a “videoy” look, so I virtually always shoot at 24p (23.976, progressive)… because that’s the look I want. I almost never ever shoot 29.97 interlaced (I literally can’t remember the last time I did), as I don’t want the video look.

So in my case, as I pointed out earlier, I shoot at 24p, I produce at 24p, and then I make a final output for television at 60i. By the way, I also output a 24p master for archival purposes, which I consider the “real” master. And if a client ever needs a version for computer-based viewing (such as a copy of their commercial to put on YouTube), then we output a 24p version for that.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com