Todd Terry
1
COW Coin
Forum Replies Created
-
[Mike Smith] “I take the contrary view.”
Depends on where you are, Mike. I’m sensing you are not in the USA, maybe UK (based on your Brit spellings of “odour” and “organise ” rather than the way we spell them here in the Colonies )? If so there are probably completely different laws there, but here the American rules of “work for hire” are pretty cut and dried.
For what it’s worth, at my place our contracts always spell out that we own and retain the rights to all footage we shoot, so there’s never any question about it.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
-
[Mark Suszko] “What I *could* imagine is, a video where you ride along with one of the salesmen/women in a “pick of the week” car, shooting with go-pros inside and a second camera car shooting outside, and you cut together 90 seconds of the salesperson driving the car and talking about it’s best points.”
Our largest automotive client, by the way, does exactly and precisely that, right down to the smallest detail Mark mentioned (in fact he was almost creepily accurate there). And they find it super effective.
What it is not, though, is a cash cow for production companies like mine. In this instance, the ad guy from the dealership does it entirely himself… just armed with a couple of mics and his bag full of a half-dozen GoPros and mounts. Now, this dealership’s marketing dude is the smartest and shrewdest ad guy I’ve ever met…. and he is not afraid of spending money in the least. They don’t bat an eye at production budgets in the five-figure range even for a single :30 spot that’s only going to run a couple of weeks…. and they’ll often run a month-long TV campaign where their media budget is in the mid four-figures…. A DAY!! So they know the value of not skimping and penny-pinching on good production. But even they know it’s not nearly worth it to spend money on “real” production for these ride-along “pick of the week” type videos. And I have to say, for do-it-yourselfers they don’t do a bad job with it, at all.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
-
Ok, I’m gonna be one of those posters on the COW that personally drive me up a tree… you know, when someone asks a question about something, but then people start chiming in with all kinds of totally unsolicited (and usually negative) advice about the poster’s project except the thing that they asked about. I personally can’t stand that, but now I’m going to do it myself… because I think some of it might be helpful in defining what you are hoping to do… and eventually how much to charge for it.
The obvious first-blush answer to “how much do I charge” question is simply “Whatever your rate is,” your rate for location shooting and your rate for editing multiplied times however long it takes you. But… automotive work can be pretty weird.
I personally don’t really like doing automotive too much, yet through the years have done a lot of it. Right now every month we do commercial spots for BMW, Volvo, Porsche, Landrover, Jaguar, and Honda dealers, along with a regional Honda Dealers Association… as well as not-quite-as-regular work for Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Nissan, Mercedes, Chevrolet and Ford stores. So we’ve had to deal a lot with automotive dealers and more importantly the automotive advertising and marketing people. It can get pretty complex.
The first thing you have to figure out is how much they are willing to pay (obvious question, I know). As you said, dealerships don’t want to spend too much money on things like this. Dealerships will spend plenty of it (sometimes buckets full) on the right kind of advertising… and for them that usually means co-opable advertising. The adverting that dealers find attractive invariably involve co-op money (where, say, you do ad work for a Toyota dealer and the dealer pays you but gets reimbursed a good chunk of the bill from Toyota). Usually though, the only advertising eligible for co-op is broadcast advertising. The manufacturers will co-op television or radio all day, but will likely be very reluctant to co-op anything else. I’d suggest you find out of any of their web-based marketing is eligible for any co-op funds. I’m going to suspect that it’s not, but if it is then you are in a much better position to sell this service and to ask a higher rate for it.
Secondly, before you start putting a great deal of time and energy in developing this, find out if it is technically feasible with the dealers you are planning to target. Many of the dealers (especially larger ones) will have an on-site person in charge of keeping inventory and such up to date on their websites… but I wouldn’t call that person an actual “webmaster” because almost invariably automotive sites are designed, hosted, and maintained by off-site third-party companies that specialize in automotive websites. Those sites, depending on the design and the package the dealer has purchased, might or might not even allow embedded video for individual inventory items. That’d be worth checking early on.
Thirdly, don’t discount what we normally think of as lower-end cars… it sounds backwards, I know, but the more “mainstream” vehicles (your Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, etc.) are much MUCH more likely to spend bigger advertising dollars than high-end or luxury dealers. I know it’s odd… but true. We’ve had dealers of VERY high end vehicles (the kind that have cars in the showroom that literally cost more than my house) that will complain about the cost of a several very modestly-priced commercial spots that they plan to run a whole year. Another more “mainstream” dealer client of ours won’t bat an eye at spending twice that (or more) on a single spot that’s only going to run two weeks… and then they are ready to do another one right after that. So don’t think “expensive” cars are where the money is at and that dealers of “cheap” cars aren’t worth bothering with. The exact opposite is true.
Lastly, find out if this is something a dealer would even want or need. That’ll help determine what you should charge. You mentioned shooting a minimum of 25 cars at a whack. Do the dealers want that many? If so, you’re golden… but they might not. The average auto brand usually only has about a half-dozen active models for sale at any given time. A gigantic Honda dealership might have 1000 cars for sale on the lot… but 300 of them are going to be almost-identical Pilots. 300 more almost identical Civics. 200 Accords. And so on. They might not need or want 25 different videos… especially when really slick high-end videos of each model are readily available on the manufacturer’s website.
What I’ve said so far isn’t that positive, but I’ll put a much more upbeat twist on it…
Where what you are offering might be much more useful in the USED (or as they say “pre-owned”) realm. If there is a “used car supercenter” in your market, THAT’s who I would hit up. Or if there are particular larger new dealers that also maintain very active used departments (and the bigger ones do). Those are the advertisers that never have to worry about co-op money (because there isn’t any), nor do they have national or corporate advertising (or marketing elements) to use or fall back on. Their inventory is wide and varying and changes daily. I think THAT’s where you’re most likely to sell this service.
I know I haven’t at ALL answered your question, but I do hope I’ve given you some things to think about that might help you get in the right direction.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
-
Gotcha. I still think your size is way huge. Your 10′ radius for a full half circle means track or slider with end points 20 feet from each other…. not many kitchens or offices will accommodate that (not many practical kitchens or offices anyway… those built with wild walls on a stage could of course).
My own curved track has a 6′ radius, but it’s only about 4′ long, not a complete half circle by any stretch, just a little piece of an arc. But with that radius, which is exactly the same as the radius of tighter Matthews curved track, is accommodating for multiple people in frame, especially with wider lenses. I would say with a 35mm or 28mm lens, I have no problem with multiple subjects frame. As I said, I’ll think on it…
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
-
Ok that is slightly more manageable, although still big.
When you first mentioned something of that size I was thinking for exterior use, but you saying “countertop” leads me to believe this is for interior use. Is it primarily for on stage use? I’m pretty rarely shooting in an interior location where I have the luxury of even your reduced-size 20-foot across half-circle, virtually all the Interiors I find myself in are much tighter than that, never anywhere near that much breathing room unless in studio.
If you’re talking about on-stage work, I’d be more inclined to think of something more conventional like a dolly that rides on the floor or track… rather than a slider supported by bunches and bunches of stands. I’ll think on it…
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
-
Well Mark I’d have to think on that a bit (I’m actually writing from the beach in one of my rare once-every-10-years vacations), but my first thought was HOLY CRAP THAT’S HUGE.
So, before I put many brain cells to it… you’re needing curved track or a slider that’s half of a FORTY FOOT circle? With something that very specific and specialized (not to mention gigantic), I do have to ask… what do you plan to shoot with it??? (If you are free to divulge)
T2
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
-
Hey Rick…
Richard may not be selling his Arri knock-off fresnels anymore, but they are still plentiful.
I just did a quick search using the terms “650 Fresnel” on both Amazon and eBay and got tons of results, probably the very same instruments that CoolLights used to sell (they certainly look like the same exact Arri clones in the same exact silver and blue housings). Came-tv.com has them as well.
Even in this LED age I for one applaud you for teaching with tungsten fresnels. It’s a little bit the way that I advocated people learning to shoot with film long after it was fashionable (or even possible, when both labs and filmstock were available). If someone can master shooting film, then shooting video or any digital format is a cakewalk (and definitely not the other way around). I think the same is true with lighting, if someone can light and light well with hot/hard instruments, then I trust their knowledge a heckuva lot more when they move into flos and LEDs. We’ve finally edged into the age when some LED fresnels have the focusability and cuttability that tungsten fresnels do, but those instruments are still on the pricey side… you could probably buy several of the Chinese old-school tungsten heads for the price of one true Fresnel LED head.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
-
Surprisingly, I’m not going to trash Fotga gear…. as far as the cheap low-end India- and China-made stuff go, the Fotga gear is actually pretty good. I’ve owned (and sold) several followfocus systems through the years, still have a pretty darn expensive Redrock FF unit, but the one that I primarily use daily is indeed a Fotga. It’s light, very solid, little to no backlash, and it just works very well.
I wouldn’t hesitate recommending Fotga for rods/rails, baseplates, FF rigs, or any of that such.
For matte boxes, though, I’d be more hesitant. Usually those India/Chinese boxes (including the Fotga) aren’t all that well made, tend to be fairly flimsy sheet metal, and yet still somehow manage to be much heavier than they should. As well as more complicated than they should (especially the swing-away ones).
In your position and budget, I think I’d try a setup that included plates/rods/FF from Fotga, and I’d pair it with a matte box from Cavision. They are one of those companies that makes very affordably-priced stuff, but is still very good. I use a Cavision matte box every day mostly because it is so lightweight (which is more important to me with each passing year). It’s not nearly as nice as, say, an Arri box… but it’s a fourth the weight (and a tenth the price). Both of which are important to me.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
-
Not yet, Mark, but I’m going to put one together…
It all went well although the trick-or-treaters were a little on the light side. We were a little puzzled by that since the weather was picture-perfect, whereas we had tons last year and it was horrible and rainy. But last year was a weekend and this year was a school night so I guess that was the difference.
I did have a last-minute technical snafu with the ScreamMaster9000 terror control unit….
You can see I have a couple of little .mp3 players just stuck to the panel. I have some kind of technical voovoo going on and the sound effects mixing stopping working properly through the panel, so there was an emergency re-route. I’ll have to look at that next year.
I also learned a lot about video feeding, something I’ve never ever done before (or had call to). My camera position could have been a lot better, but I wanted it discrete. I was just feeding one out of five cameras… I’d like to be able to switch and use them all, but my hands are pretty full. I did have a friend show up on my doorstep, he was watching at home and while he could see the kids’ reactions he couldn’t see what was causing those reactions, so he jumped in his car and drove 15 miles to come see.
Every year is a learning experience. I’ll send a link soon.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
-
[Nakean Wickliff] “Do I charge for this?”
Well… we sure would.
I’d charge whatever your usual hourly suite rate is to do the work. It’s not like a one-button click “send me this” kinda thing.
T2
__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
