Rob Neidig
8
COW Coins
Forum Replies Created
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Which unit you get may depend on how many channels of audio you normally work with. Right now you have a great 3-channel mixer in the SD302. Unfortunately I don’t think there’s a way to output the three channels individually to a recorder like the Zoom F4. If you really want something that is more of an all-in-one, the MixPre-6 is definitely something to consider. Both the Zoom F8 and F4 CAN be used as mixers and recorders, but I believe they are best utilized as multi-track recorders with a good mixer in front of them. I find the small knobs can sometimes be an issue and the output routing is not as flexible as mixers like the SD442, SD552, etc when sending audio to cameras. Many people seem to be using just a Zoom F4 or F8n as combo mixer/recorders in indie film production however, so that may work for you.
Have fun!
Rob Neidig
R&R Media Productions
Eugene, Oregon -
The two different “Stereo Out”s can both be used at the same time. However, if you want to raise the level of the feed to your Sennheiser, you would end up also raising the level to the main speakers – not ideal. That’s why I suggested the “Monitor Out”. Everything that is going to the “Stereo Out” will also go to the “Monitor Out”. But you have separate control of the output signal without affecting the main speaker’s level.
As far as the Sennheiser AVXs being able to compensate for the level difference between mic and line level – I don’t have any experience with the AVXs but I would be shocked if they have that capability. What you will like end up with is line level being sent into an input set up for mic level, resulting in an overmodulated, distorted mess. NOTE – I just took a look at the manual for the AVX system, and it appears that you CAN hook up line level signals into it, though you may have to use a different cable as there is some sort of diagram showing mic level on the tip and line level on the ring. I don’t know what that’s all about so you will have to experiment or get info from someone who knows the AVX system.
You also state “…there must be a separate box somewhere else, amalgamating the 5 or 6 mics that were being used at the event)”.
No, that’s what a mixer does – it takes all the different mic sources and mixes them together so it can send the resulting mix of sound out. So I presume the 5 or 6 mics are run into the channels of the Yamaha mixer and then out from the “Stereo Out”.
Have fun!
Rob Neidig
R&R Media Productions
Eugene, Oregon -
Hi, Denis!
With your Sennnheiser wireless mic set (I assume you have either the G2, G3, or G4 EW112 ?) in addition to the cable you probably use to get from the receiver to your camera, which has a mini connector on the receiver and an XLR to attach to the camera, you should have a cable that has mini connectors on each end. That cable is used to send instrument and line level signals to the transmitter. You would also need a 1/4″ to 1/8″ inch mono adapter. I would go from the left channel of the “Monitor Out” on the mixer, using the 1/4″-1/8″ adapter and the 1/8″ – 1/8″ cable I mentioned. This would allow you to use the “Monitor Level” control to only affect the output to your transmitter, and not affect the “Stereo Out”, which I assume is what they are using to go to the main speakers for the venue. You will then need to change the “Sensitivity” setting on your Sennheiser transmitter because you are sending a line level signal into it instead of the usual much lower strength mic level. You might start by selecting a Sensitivity of -45 and then changing it as necessary to match up your levels correctly. Note that your wireless mic is only going to send one channel of audio, so if the mixer is set up to send actual stereo information out (not likely for most live venues, but possible) then you would only be getting one channel.
There are way too many possible settings on the mixer to try to tell you what to do there. If it’s not already set up correctly and you do not understand how a mixer works, then you will not be able to get decent audio. If what you hear out of the main speakers sounds good, then you should be able to do what I suggested above and send that sound to your camera.
As Ty said, though, there is no substitute for bringing along an audio person that knows how to do all this and can concentrate on just the audio.
Have fun!
Rob
Rob Neidig
R&R Media Productions
Eugene, Oregon -
Well once again “that depends”. The Mackie and Behringer mixers that would be pretty common in DJ applications I believe, do usually have an option to send the main outs either MIC or LINE level. However, those outputs may already be what the DJ is using to send to his amp/speakers, so what he/she is sending to the video person may have to come from some other output. And yes, those other outputs are going to be LINE level. And not to complicate things even further, but probably -10 dB consumer line level vs. +4dB professional line level.
Good info from both Brian and Ty here. The bottom line is that you really have to have a basic understanding of audio levels and how your H4N works, as well as a basic understanding of mixers so you know what you are being sent. I’m sorry to say there are many DJs out there who really have no idea how to send you a proper feed. And of course it is not really their job to do that, their job is to provide sound for the live event. So the more you know about it yourself, the better off you will be. There have been a number of discussions on this forum about getting a feed from a mixer and about what kinds of cables and adapters are handy to keep in your bag to assist in that endeavor. I would search using terms like “board feed”, “line from mixer”, maybe “board cable adapter”, etc.
Have fun!
Rob Neidig
R&R Media Productions
Eugene, Oregon -
Yes, this is possible, but there are several things to keep in mind.
First you DO need a mic splitter. The Zoom F8 does not have direct outs for each channel, so you would need to split the signal for each mic. So that’s potentially an 8-channel mic splitter you would need. Radial makes a great one but it’s very expensive. ART makes a usable one that is more affordable. EWI makes a very good 4-channel unit that you could get 2 of. You would run a cable from each mic to a channel of the mic splitter, then use the “Direct Out” or “Pass Thru” from the splitter to the Zoom F8. Then use an “Isolated Out” for that channel to the Tascam DR680. You should only need to send phantom power from the Zoom. Levels would need to be set on both the Zoom and DR680 separately.
Also on the DR680, tracks 7 & 8 need to be fed digital audio to be able to record separate tracks rather than just a mixdown of the other 6 tracks. So you need something to convert your analog mic signals to SPDIF or AES/EBU audio to feed channels 7 & 8. The DR680 is also a little bit picky in which devices it will accept SPDIF from, due to copy protection schemes implemented in the unit. I have successfully used a Focusrite 6i6 to act as a preamp and then send SPDIF to the DR680, so the 2-channel version should also work. I also have an Apogee Mini Me unit that I have used to do the same.
Bottom line: it’s possible, but not exactly easy.
Have fun!
Rob Neidig
R&R Media Productions
Eugene, Oregon -
Yes, it should have been caught. But I am seeing (hearing) more and more of that kind of thing with videos. In some cases people are only putting audio in one channel with nothing in the other. In other cases they have sound bouncing back and forth between channels. I don’t know how editors are monitoring the audio, but I really don’t understand how they can release something that way. I normally do field audio on projects where, during the shoot, I put one actor’s dialog on the left channel and the other on the right channel so that they can be treated separately in post. This is, of course, standard practice. But then I hear the final product and the editor has left the audio panned left and right, which sounds terrible in the final mix. I believe it comes from poor monitoring (laptops where you might not notice the left/right balance or some kind of mono monitoring?) and and poor understanding of audio by too many people who only concentrate on the video side of production.
Rob Neidig
R&R Media Productions
Eugene, Oregon -
I suspect it probably was an accident. But it may have resulted from the editor setting things up for “split sound” as was referenced in the original post. If a film is going to released in different languages it used to be quite common to create a master tape that had all dialog on one channel with music and effects on the other. That way a post production facility could create new dialog or voice over in a different language and then mix it with the music and effects from the other channel. I assume it would be rare to see that kind of thing much anymore. It would more usual to send stems or a complete Pro Tools or other DAW system project file with all the associated audio.
Rob Neidig
R&R Media Productions
Eugene, Oregon -
It’s not clear how you are connecting the AT4053 or AT875 to the Sennheiser transmitter. The stock kits come with a lav mic to connect to the transmitter, and I believe a mini-jack to mini-jack cable for connecting other sources. If you are using different cabling than that, then that could be some of your problem. Even if that is sorted out, then I believe Bruce has the right idea in making sure you are using the correct levels all the way around.
Rob Neidig
R&R Media Productions
Eugene, Oregon -
As you’ve noted, many of the high-isolation phones don’t have great sound. I have a pair of Vic Firth isolation headphones for drummers that fit that category. They sound awful, but at least you can hear them, most of the time.
I worked with a guy who had a pair of the Remote Audio headphones that use the drivers from the Sony 7506 but put a shell around them that isolates the sound much better. I have only played around with them a little so I don’t have a fully developed opinion of them, but he loves them and has been using them as his main pair of headphones on numerous film and video shoots for years. I believe they are the ones I have linked to (on the B&H site) below.
Have fun!
Rob
Rob Neidig
R&R Media Productions
Eugene, Oregon -
What you bought is a general bag. It is for putting all the extra bits in. If you want something designed just for your recorder, you should look at this:
Have fun!
Rob
Rob Neidig
R&R Media Productions
Eugene, Oregon