[Matthew Romanis]

Hi Marco,
Are you sure your 25fps Varicam footage was shot with the camera switched to 59.94hz, and not 60hz? The way to check is by using the userbits reader on your replay deck to check the data off tape. If the last 2 digit number on the display starts with a 5 then yes the footage was shot with the camera system frequency set to 59.94hz thus making all it’s frame rates derivitives for NTSC usage. If the last 2 digit number starts with a 6 then the camera was set to 60 hz and all frame rates are PAL derived. Don’t assume that because the tape is running at 60fps that all the footage is always NTSC. The Varicam is a multiformat camera and all shoots must be planned out with all aspects of post in mind because of this.
FYI on the user bits panel the 3rd set of 2 digit numbers will be stationary when the tape is played and will tell you the frame rate the camera was cranking at when the footage was shot.

[Matthew Romanis]

Thanks Guys for your posts.
I was trying to understand if the Kona 2 card was somehow different to the BM card in this slow down process, and it appears that it is not (though the down conversion seems to win).
On anything other than sports or event coverage the method of capturing 2-3 times the amount off tape than the “shoot time” is easily dealt with. But when dealing with a continuous shot that lasts for 20 -25 minutes you can see the difficulty of doing it this way in that you have to make between 6-8 (sometimes 12) multiple captures, each capture getting shorter in duration until you reach the point where you can stitch together the multiple clips into one continuous stream. For 20 mins of footage this process can take up to 2hrs just to capture.
We used to use the Panasonic FRC for these applications, but here in Australia access to them is limited now, they don’t like to travel and become notoriously unstable when bumped in transit.
An FCP FRC plugin developed for PAL would be a godsend, but for some reason no one has developed this, which is strange becuase in PAL (SD
) we only have one frame rate, surely it’s simple to do.
The difficulty with sports/event coverage is that we don’t have the ability to roll off the rest of the tape with bars or something at the time, we have to change tapes quickly and keep covering the event. Coming back to the tape and rematching TC in the camera, performing a return edit in camera and rolling out the tape is one way of dealing with this, but it only seems to work effectively half the time. FCP sometimes senses a dropped frame and will re-spool and re batch the material but with a 10-20 second gap in coverage.
Like I was saying earlier, most of what we shoot with the Varicam is cranked at 24/25 fps with the occasional shot intended for slow motion. It’s just these couple of Sports/Events shoots we do that create some hurdles.
I love the variable format capabilities of the Varicam, just two weeks ago I shot part of a doco for ESPN where I cranked the system frequency of the camera from 60 to 59.94hz and shot at 24fps for use back in the states in a 23.98 sequence. I then made a backup copy to HDD through the BM card and FCP in case anything happened to the tapes in transit. The next day I was shooting for PAL outcome again. What a system!!!
Gary, I love the idea of your Varicamps. We don’t have anything quite like that here which is why forums like these, and the Varicam forum, are such a tremendous resourse.
I thank you for your time.

[Matthew Romanis]

Hi Gary,
Your’e talking about shooting at lower frame rates than what you intend playing back with, yes? What about higher frame rates? The reason I’m being a little pedantic about this is that if the Kona 2 card can deal with the higher frame rates better than the the BM card, then getting one is a certainty. Like I was saying in previous threads, the only way of dealing with the 60fps shooting intended for replay at 25fps is cumbersome within the BM card when the camera tape is shot beyond 12 – 13 minute mark . It makes dubbing into an FRC and then out to tape, then capturing into FCP seem quick!!
The aplication I’m talking about here is for sports coverage where the slow motion capabilities of the Varicam make it a great production tool. The methodology of dealing with the Kona 2 card in post, when quick turn around is required, is what I’m interested in.
Curently with the BM card you have to capture almost 3 times the amount of media required off tape to attain a clip in slow motion. I understand the process of why the BM card needs to do this, is the Kona 2 card different?

[Matthew Romanis]

Hi Tony,
What methodology are you using to down convert within FCP. The couple of ways I have experimented with have dissapointing results.

[Matthew Romanis]

Matthew Romanis- “What I am asking is how the Kona 2 card actually captures footage shot with the camera cranking at 60fps, but intended for playback at conventional frame rates thus providing a slow down. With the BM card you have to capture 3x the amount of footage than you intend on using so as the flagged frames are laid 1:1 on a 25fps timeline”

Gary Adcock-“Well you are capturing Frames Per Second,so if you record a 10 minute scene on tape it still only captures for 10 minutes not more. The hardware is only polling the flagged frames not any additional info, so there is no need to “record 3x” the amount of footage to get the content just the length of time you captured the content on tape
It works just like the Hardware FRC – it is one of the benefits of using hardware for conversions”

Walter Biscardi-“It’s the same with the Kona 2. I was helping a client capture 60p footage at 23.98 because he wants all of it to be slow mo. In order to do this on the fly via the K2, you need to capture about 3x what you would think you’d need. I’ve actually been discussing this with AJA Tech Support to see if we can come up with some sort of formula to help folks capture this way, but it’s always going to involve capturing more than you would think.”

Thanks for your replys Gary and Walter.
Could I get some clarification on this please. Please remember guys that in the PAL world we don’t have the FRC Plugin, let alone any firewire support through FCP for HD100. Gary seems to be saying that I don’t need to capture 2.4 – 3 times the amount of media required for flagged 60fps playback on a 25fps timeline, but Walter is saying I do, just like the BM card.
Gary does your way of dealing with this require rendering? Or is it still real time?
Thanks for the info on down converting.

[Matthew Romanis]

Hi Walter,
Thanks for you reply. The FRC tool would be a good thing if it was a PAL plugin too.

[Matthew Romanis]

Hi Gary.
I noticed you are in Chicago. Mate, your’e up late!!!
Thanks for taking time to reply.
Greetings from Australia.

[Matthew Romanis]

Hi Gary,
I may not have made my question very clear. I own a Varicam and aware of all it’s capabilities.
What I am asking is how the Kona 2 card actually captures footage shot with the camera cranking at 60fps, but intended for playback at conventional frame rates thus providing a slow down. With the BM card you have to capture 3x the amount of footage than you intend on using so as the flagged frames are laid 1:1 on a 25fps timeline. This can be very frustrating especially when the original tape is shot beyond a 12 min limit (you have to roll out the rest of the tape with time code/bars.) When confronted with a tape shot out to 25mins for example, you have to make multiple captures each progressively getting smaller in duration, but further along in the tape.
If you could explain to me the actual mechanics of capturing 60fps cranked footage intended for 25fps playback thus creating slow motion with the Kona 2 card.
With the BM card FCP capture setting are all set to 25fps (not 60fps, this is a BM provided capture setting) and time line settings are all set to 25fps. All this ensures that when you drop the original slow motion footage on a 25fps 720p time line, there is no rendering.
I am wondering if the Kona 2 card provides a more elegant way of dealing with overcranked footage.
Thanks.

[Matthew Romanis]

Thanks Walter and Tony for your reply.
Can I ask you if the method of capturing overcranked footage is the same as the BM card, in that if you have shot 1 minute of 60fps intended for replay at 25fps, you need to capture almost three times that length so as all the flagged frames can be written over the intended length of timecode?
Also, a question re the down conversion, is it active when down converting within FCP, or do you need to down convert out to tape then re capture the down converted material to realise it’s full potential. We often use the Varicam 60fps material as a slow motion source for some of our sports programs that are made in SD 25fps.

[Matthew Romanis]

Reading threads like this is making me truly wonder if people are seriously considering this camera as a replacement for 35mm? Or even Varicam for that matter? Are we all considering that this camera at its price point is going to do it all?
I’m very keen to get a HVX 200 when it is released in PAL, I will even buy 3 cards at first so we cycle effectively, but I’m not going to convince anyone who cares to use it that it will replace a Varicam, or a film camera.
Surely it’s going to create it’s own niche.
Isn’t it designed to expose users of Mini Dv and some higher DV formats to something with some more bells and whistles, something that gives them a taste of what Varicam, and to a lesser degree, Cine gamma enabled Panasonic cameras can do?
I’m not bagging the camera, or anyone with an opinion as what they will do when they get one, but are we maybe getting a little carried away with our expectations of what this little gem can do?