John Cummings
Forum Replies Created
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Sorry, I was off shooting “tape” for a few days.
Thanks for checking my math Jeremy, and I appreciate all the other insights from P2 users. I’ll be one, eventually. You’ll see my posts in the P2 forum with the header HELP!Noah, I hereby publicly apologize to you for saying you sounded shillish. I actually think you’re pretty smart, most of the time.
I’m not drinking the P2 koolaid yet, but I’m thirsty for a new Varicam to upgrade to from an HDX. I guess that’s how I got embroiled in this thread.
J Cummings
DP/Chicago
http://www.cameralogic.tv -
I’ll use my last project as an example.
10 days of doc shooting in the middle east earlier this month. We shot 5-6 hours of tape a day for 10 days. I have at least 9 more trips abroad scheduled for this project. It’s a 10 hour HD documentary series.What is DVCProHD’s data rate …about a gig a minute? That’s well over 300 Gigs a day for a total of of just over 3 Terabytes of data for the trip. That’s a lot of data and a lot of HD’s, if you count protection backups…and I would double up.
How many P2 cards would I need a day (assuming we would only transfer at night) Lets say 2 sets of 32GB (10 cards @ $16,000)
How long would it have taken me to transfer that data and do a protection backup every night? (after a 10 hour day shooting in the heat)I have no idea…lets say 3 hours of OT per night. That would not make me happy, even though it’s extra income.
How many HD’s would I have had to take with me for the trip? (how many more cases and excess baggage charges for the P2 gear–P2 reader, HD’s, AC converters/adapters, cables, laptops)
What if I brought a data wrangler…extra airfare, hotel, meals, and pay. (about $6K) or hire one for $3500 locally (if I could find a qualified one that speaks english.)
I won’t ask about an HD not spinning up, a laptop that fails to boot (a macbook pro died on us last trip) corrupted files, bad cables, misdirected/lost luggage.
So how much extra did P2 cost me for the trip?
$16000 P2 cards (I know, a one time cost…out of my pocket)
$2475 Overtime hours for data transfers(or $4-6K for an extra body)
$600 Excess baggage
$5500 Hard drives, P2 reader, laptop and cables, travel cases.Total $8575-$28,575 extra for P2
That will buy a lot of logging/digitizing and a boatload of tape. And how do you store 35 terabytes of raw data over the life of the project and then securely archive it for years? My mind boggles at that thought…but it’s really not my problem.
As to the other posts: Metadata on a shoot like this? I doubt it. Running and gunning with a Firestore on a camera with a large brick and two wireless receivers? I don’t think so.Yes, someday soon we’ll all be tapeless. That transition is not something I fear or don’t understand. But right now there is some serious voodoo economics and omission of facts being employed by fans of tapeless workflow. The real fact is, the costs and the labor pretty much just shift from one place to another. Mostly from the post process to the field. Will I charge extra for that $16K of media, transfer labor and storage costs? You bet. Will I mark them up? You bet. Does my client want to trust a $100,000 trip to several HD’s bought at Best Buy? Not so far.
I can assure you that my clients have run the numbers and the considered the “workflow.” And for now, they all still prefer tape. And for now, so do I.
J Cummings
DP/Chicago
http://www.cameralogic.tv -
“My point is this workflow is the future.”
Not quite correct. It’s just one of many workflows of the future. P2 has many issues: capture capacity, media cost, field convenience, portability, distribution, system compatibility and archiving…all are potentially expensive issues that have to be dealt with. One quick scan of the P2 forum makes it very clear that many people are struggling with one of those issues or another. To a small owner-operator like myself…and most of my broadcast clients–the end users…those issues simply outweigh the benefits, right now.
“So pushing it away now is just saving the trouble for later-“
You mean the inevitable troubles that that all P2 users have to face?
Yes, I can wait on that.“when everyone else has mastered it and you’re less competitive. Just a suggestion…”
Sounds like something a bad Panasonic rep would say, Noah. And it immediately ticked me off.
The inference that any of our concerns with one particular aquisition format will determine our future in the industry is laughable and a just a little insulting. When you cease addressing issues and concerns and instead hurl vague insults at your peers, you start sounding less like a moderator and more like a shill.
Just a suggestion…
J Cummings
DP/Chicago
http://www.cameralogic.tv -
We get your point, Noah.
But I’m pretty sure Panasonic (Japan) doesn’t get ours. If there were a “sensible workflow” for everybody, we would all be on board by now…instead of moaning about it here. It’s not that we don’t get it.
Solid state will happen for doc shooters like me, but a few more pieces have to fall into place before that happens. And by that time, there will be many viable options to Panasonic out there.
It would be very telling to see sales figures for HDX-900 cameras vs. full size P2 cams. I’m sure “robust” could probably be used to describe HDX unit sales.
I know many freelancers like Chris, and most have HDX’s…but would rather have a newer generation of tape-based Varicams. I think Panasonic is missing a opportunity.
J Cummings
DP/Chicago
http://www.cameralogic.tv -
“I know several DPs (one of them ASC) that swear by plain ol’ ordinary Glass Plus widow cleaner, the stuff you can get right at the grocery store.”
Maybe for uncoated glass filters, but for a coated lens?
Todd, be very sure you know what you’re saying before you put something like that out here!J Cummings
DP/Chicago
http://www.cameralogic.tv -
Go to your local eyeglass shop and get a spray bottle of “Ultra Clarity” lens cleaner. Then go to your local camera shop and get a couple packs of Kodak lens tissue. Moisten the tissue thoroughly and gently wet wipe lens several times. Then carefully (without pressure)wipe the lens with a dry Kodak tissue. If that doesn’t remove the schmutz, then you need to send it in. Never dry wipe a lens that has anything on it as it will scratch the coating.
J Cummings
DP/Chicago
http://www.cameralogic.tv -
Or you can try a Noga T-Bracket:
https://www.filmtools.com/noga-vp-tbrkt-t-bracket.html
I use them, and they work well. But be very careful…you can easily overload the screw with too much weight and strip it right out of the handle…a repair that will cost you a few hundred bucks, plus shipping and time without your camera.
Don’t ask me how I know that…
J Cummings
DP/Chicago
http://www.cameralogic.tv -
I’d be very interested to know how many hours that camera has on it. If it has low hours and it’s that recently out of warranty, I would hope Panasonic (or your dealer) would take better care of you.
If you’re comfortable popping the hood on that camera, I would definately try several (gentle) wet cleanings followed by a pass with a tape cleaner to see if that makes any difference…or I would take it to a local dealer’s shop for that cleaning service and a second opinion. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Hey George…as another HDX owner, I’m curious…where do you find HDX firmware updates or HDX service advisories on the net? I’ve looked all over Panasonics websites and haven’t stumbled on them yet…I’ve only found P2 camera-based updates…
J Cummings
DP/Chicago
http://www.cameralogic.tv -
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“When I had to shop for a used car, the very last thing I paid attention to were TV and radio ads. I glanced thru print ads in the paper and free weeklies and “shopper” papers, did a lot of internet research on the repair histories and user comments, and read some consumer reports and similar things, narrowed down to exactly two makes/models. Went out and rented the one of those two cars I had never driven before, drove it for a day trip. The wife and I compared notes between our two candidates, picked the one make and model we wanted and the year we wanted (used), then checked all the print sources and internet sources for that exact car near us. Test drove three candidate cars that matched our specs over two weekends at three dealerships. Picked THE car, sat down with all our research and cost estimates and haggled to a respectable deal. Done. Process took about two months from the time we decided it was necessary to buy a replacement vehicle.”
C’mon…wandering into the dealership to “just look”, and going home an hour later with a new car is one of life’s most joyous and disorienting experiences.
Some people just don’t know how to have fun.
J Cummings
DP/Chicago
http://www.cameralogic.tv