[Johan Lundqvist]

I like the Match Media Settings function, and it works perfectly! The project settings turn out to be the same that I set manually before, but that was to be expected after my 15 hours of work on this problem. Like I thought, Match Media Settings sets the template of the project to PAL Standard/IMX Widescreen, and the field order to upper field first. Rendering to MainConcept MPEG-2 using the Default Template is not, however, working fine at all. It looks horrible after rendering with that template. The Default Template does not seem to comply with the project settings at all. It uses Aspect ratio 4:3 (!), and LOWER field first (!). Because the field order differs from the project settings, the picture looks very strange. And the 4:3 aspect ratio is obviously totally wrong. Needless to say – the “No compression…”-sign is not shown at all during rendering with the default temple.

So – my last hope is that someone (perhaps you John?) can have a look at this 4 sec clip and try to find the right rendering-settings for MainConcept MPEG-2 in Vegas (so that rendering is done without any recompression). The Match Media Settings function does the job in Project Settings – it�s all about finding the rendering-settings i guess.

Here is the clip: https://www.svardmail.se/johan/Unedited.mpg

Thanks!

(I´ve tried to put a few copies of the 4 sec clip after each other on the timeline and then render them to one file. If I use the best rendering settings that I can come up with, the “No recompression…”-sign blinks a couple of times in the preview window during rendering.)

[Johan Lundqvist]

I have now tried – in “Render As…”, custom template – to change the bitrate. I´ve tried constant bit rate: 8 500 000 as well as variable bit rate with 8 500 000 as maximum. None of this changes anything (the “No Recompression…”-sign is not constant during rendering). The “No Recompression…”-sign shows for like 1-4 times when I render my 26 sec movie-clip.

This is really starting to feel hopeless. I just want the “No compression…”-sign to be constant during rendering so I know that there is no quality loss in the picture from the original file. Perhaps I’m trying to do something impossible. Or perhaps there is a bug in Vegas. I mean – why would the “No Recompression…” just blink a few times during rendering? If the sign bothers to appear at all – why is it not constant? It’s the same clip and it’s pure an not changed in any way! I can’t find information anywhere about “No Rec..”-sign just showing up very fast like on my screen.

Perhaps people with Mini-DVD:s dont care about editing, but I do. And when the picture quality is not very good from the start, I surely do not want the quality to be worse just because I edit my movies without effects and add some music.

I’ll try to link to a 4 sec clip tomorrow. The clip I will link to was created on my harddrive when importing a DVD Camcorder disc in Vegas. It’s not been processed by Vegas other than that and it has not been edited in any way.

Good night and thank you for your help!

[Johan Lundqvist]

I have a friend who can help me to put up the 4 sec file on the internet tomorrow.

I have found this information in Vegas help menu:

“When you render video to any of the following formats, unedited video frames are passed through without recompression:

DV AVI

DV MXF

IMX MXF (IMX 24p MXF is not supported for no-recompress rendering)

HD MXF

HDV

In order to perform rendering without recompression, the width, height, frame rate, field order, and bit rate of the source media, project settings, and rendering template must match. Frames that have effects, compositing, or transitions applied will be rendered.”

I actually don’t understand what the above means. When you select “Render As”, there is no option that says “IMX MXF” for example. I use MainConcept MPEG-2 and as template I first select DVD Architect PAL Widescreen video stream. I then have to make a custom setting in the template – “Upper field first”. Is this the same as “IMX MXF”?

[Johan Lundqvist]

I use a Sony DCR-DVD205. It’s bought in Sweden (Europe) where i live. Iv’e formatted the disc to shoot in 16:9 so the original footage is in widescreen. I’d love to post a few seconds from a file – any good suggestion where I can put it?

Thanks for your help!

[Johan Lundqvist]

So the “no recompression required” should’t blink on the preview screen during rendering. So I guess, during rendering – the preview screen should not show any movie at all, just the “no recompression…”-sign.

I have now been sitting for hours trying different settings on a small test-movie (26 secs completely uncut), but the best I can get is the blinking of the “no recompression…”. The sign is never steady for more than like 1/100 sek. If I try settings that I know are wrong, the “no reco…” never shows at all and the rendering goes much slower.

If I right-click my 26 sec movie in the project media window and choose “properties”, I get this:

Accessed: den 18 september 2008, 22:34:22
Attributes: Archive

Streams
Video: 00:00:26,400, 25,000 fps interlaced, 720x576x32, MPEG-2
Audio: 00:00:26,368, 48 000 Hz; Stereo, MPEG

ACID information
ACID chunk: no
Stretch chunk: no
Stretch list: no
Stretch info2: no
Beat markers: no
Detected beats: no

Other metadata
Regions/markers: no
Command markers: no

Media manager
Media tags: no

Plug-In
Name: mcplug.dll
Folder: C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 8.0\FileIO Plug-Ins\mcplug
Format: MainConcept MPEG-2
Version: Version 2.0 (Build 4349)
Company: Sony Creative Software Inc.

I’m trying different settings in project properties and custom settings in templates before rendering, and I have no imagination left. You were talking about changing the bitrate or the GOP. What is GOP (and how do I change it) and how do I know what bitrate my original file has? During rendering, I usually use the default options on varable bitrate. The only setting I have found where it says GOP is in the custom template where it says “insert sequence header before every GOP”, “use closed GOPs” and “length of GOPs”.

From what I understand, the PAL Standard/IMX Widescreen option should be used in project properties, but I have to have the “upper field first” (because the original file comes from the mini-DVD). I have tried lower field first (which is usually default) but then the rendered file looks truly awful.

[Johan Lundqvist]

Changing the values on variable bitrate does’nt help me…

[Johan Lundqvist]

Oh, this is a strange thing that perhaps tells us that Vegas is the “problem” here and not DVD Architect. In Vegas, I imported a DVD Camcorder disc. The content was 1,26 GB. Then I took all the content to the timeline in Vegas and rendered the content. The “No compression”-sign showed during the process. I used MainConcept and did’nt do separate audio and video tracks. The rendered file is 896 MB. Could this difference (1,26 GB – 896 MB) be all related to the audio compression – doesn’t the video have to be rendered (and shrunk) for the difference to be this big?

[Johan Lundqvist]

I do like this – I put the Mini-DVD in my DVD-player connected to a Sony LCD-TV (40″). Then I found a typical “weak” spot in the movie where the compression has made its mark. I try to remember the look of the weak spot and afterwards, I directly put in my edited DVD. The weak spot now looks somewhat different and even worse. I will try to see if I can solve this problem, perhaps I´ll get back to you if I have any more questions.

My last question for now is this: When the “No recompression..”-sign shows in the preview window during rendering, it is not constant. The movie keeps running and the “no recompression”-sign just blinks very often for like 10/100 of a second (sometimes you can´t really see the text, it goes so fast). Is that what it should be like? Or does the “no recompression”-sign show only a few frames that are actually not recompressed?

Thank you for your help!

[Johan Lundqvist]

Thanks again!

About the picture: As far as I can tell, the picture should be exactly the same on the Mini-DVD and on the edited DVD (although it´s not)… So the question is – where does the quality loss come from? I mean – if it was a question of me having the wrong settings in Vegas, i guess the preview window would not say “no recompress…”. And DVD Architect does not tell me that it does anything with the movie. Before I burn the DVD, I check “Optimize DVD” in DVD Architect and there is no warning sign of recompression of the movie at all.

About the audio: In my case – is render to .wav pointless? Should I use Dolby Digital AC3 Pro or Studio?

[Johan Lundqvist]

Thank you for your answer!

Well, I don�t think that I use any color correction or other FX that could cause the problem.

The only thing I�ve added is music and time marks (in Vegas) and subtitles (in DVD architect) and I don�t think that could cause the problem. I use the option “save project markers in media file” when rendering.

When rendering the movies, it says “no recompression needed” in the preview window from time to time (the text is shown very fast many times) – so I guess I�m ok on that area.

I have not made separate streams for video and sound, but is that really necessary to solve this problem? I have found this text in Vegas help menu though:

“If you’re using the MainConcept MPEG-2 encoder, use the DVD Architect PAL video stream template to render your video stream (you’ll need to render your audio stream separately according to the parameters listed in the AC-3 audio or PCM audio headings).”

As I said, I have added music in Vegas. I have added mp3-streams and DVD architect tells me – before burning the DVD – that the audio tracks will be compressed. DVD architect does not however tell me that any video files will be compressed.

To sum it up – why is the picture quality not exactly the same on the edited DVD I have made? Should I use separate streams for video and audio? The audio is fine now – I only want to improve the picture.