George Burbano
Forum Replies Created
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Cant tell if the footage is shot already from your posst. If it is not already shot, then you can do it several ways.
The best would be to get a pro recorder, copy the Cd and then use it as a playback device. I feed the out of the recorder to the camera, as a reference for each shot, and this way while you are recording, the talent is lip syncing to the music. Then in post, just replace the camera sound track with the music.
If you want to go high tech, you can get the recorder to feed timecode to the slate, slate each shot, and use 1 of the outs of the recorder to feed the audio to the camera at the same time. I just did this and it works really good, no problem syncing.Roll the camera first then start the recorder, the camera will record the slate/timecode of the audio. It took alot of practice to do this, and I ended up purchasing both the slate and sound devices recorder 744T. Very expensive, but I wanted the equipment for other projects anyway.
As far as the timeline goes, set it up for easy setup, 720P and set up the seq. as a 24fps seq. Edit as usual, export with compressor and voila..
George
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Oh boy this is going to be long, but here goes….
(I made a number of really bad decisions when making this short I am currently trying to edit. I only had the Panasonic HVX 200 for a short amount of time, and was not able to test the editing process before shooting – hence I shot in 1080 24p normal to P2 cards, and then transfered the files to an external hard drive, when I should have shot 1080 24pA.)
Well the difference between the 24P and 24PA mode is very little. The decision to shoot in one vs the other is made primarily on how the delivery of the shoot will be.
24P will always look better on a 59.94 timeline. Remember that NTSC video does not run at 30fps (29.97) Tape runs at 59.94
In order for 24fps (23.98) to run on tape a 2:3 pulldown is applied. The hvx applies a in camera pulldown to change 24fps into 60 fields..(59.94) This is the same way we see movies that were shot on film, in tv or on dvd.. They apply the same technology.
(When I first started messing around with the clips in FCP CS2 at my school, the clips looked so good that I didn’t realize until just now that I have been looking at them in a 29.97 DVCPRO HD timeline, and they are in fact interlaced.)
Again, the actual timeline is 59.94 Just so you know , video shot with the hvx at 24P will look better than video shot at 24PA, when played back on tv or in dvd. Its just that 24P footage is slightly more compressed than 24PA but will be smoother on a 60 timeline….
(Needless to say, this is my first HD project, and only my second 24p project, so I am feeling hopeless. What I want is the best possible looking end result to transfer to HDCAM to screen theatrically, but if the best means interlaced, progressive, 29.97 or 23.98, I have no clue.)
Actually what you may have wanted to do from the begining is to shoot in 720P. Why Hdcam>>See 1080 is always interlaced, to make it progressive you have to apply an additional decompress and recompress. Which is why most people will say that there is very little difference for the extra work involved in dealing with 1080. 720 is always progressive…. you can edit 1080-24PA on a 24P timeline but this involves much more work. and like you said it will be jerky… But if you edit it on a 60fps (53.94) it will be nice and smooth..
(I tried the Cinetools reverse telecine on some clips, and while they are not interlaced anymore, they are very jittery. Is there a better way to convert my 1080i 24p normal clips to be progressive and 23.98? Maybe I did it wrong?)
This is going to happen because of the way that the pulldown is aplied. When cinetools is used, what you are doing is applying a 2:3 pulldown to interlaced footage that was shot at 24fps. This is not an efficient way to do this. So you are right here, you needed to shoot the footage at 24PA. The result would be much cleaner on a 24P timeline.
There are a variety of different ways to convert this footage, but why would you want to. If you are going to display it on a screen, you are much better off staying with the footage the way it was. It will look much better on tape in the normal 60fps (59.94) timeline. You would only really need to worry about this if you are going to output to real film..And both can be blown up to film.
(So… what i would love to know is the whole import, edit, and export process as recommended by somebody who has dealt with this. I have looked at endless postings and workflow tutorials, and none deal with this in detail.)
If you are going to end up on tape or dvd, shoot 1080Pa, only if you are going to use a program that will deal with PA. Of course most software does nowadays, so this isnt much of a problem. This way when you work on a 24fps timeline it will keep the original 24frames without recompressing them, and the video will still not look as smooth as had it been kept on a 60fps timeline (59.94)
1. What setup do i use in my project when doing the “Log and Transfer” to get my clips into FCP?
ans: it depends on how you shoot it and what you are going to do with it. I personally recomend shooting at 720 24P.
2. What sequence setting and timebase do I edit in?If you are using 1080 24ps, and want it to be on a 24fps timeline, be very careful how you shoot. Lighting appropriately and shooting it carefully with slow smooth pans, etc. will look better. Any sudden movements will create a very jittery video. If you need to shoot any type of action, then shoot at 1080 30fps. It will much smoother, and still look close to film.There is no pulldown here….
3. What method do I use to export a DVCPRO HD quicktime file for the post company to transfer to HDCAM?
The company should be able to give you guidelines on this, but going to hdcam which is a tape based system, would require you to stay on a 60I timeline. (59.94) Not Im not an expert on this but I spent literally almost 4mos, testing this and learning about how this camera works and what works for what is needed.
4. Is HDCAM 29.97 ever better than 23.98?
Better???? Matter of opinion. HDcam is a higher (theoretically) format but it is designed for 1920x1080i 60fps (53.94) video.If you apply 24fps to this, you are going to end up with jittery footage, unless, it is very smoothly and accurately shot. Again, you may want to shoot 1080 30P.And, to make everything worse, my school is set up for HDV, so we have a Blackmagic card for viewing on the HD monitor. What external Video Playback settings should I use. To play back to the monitor, you would need to make sure you have your blackmagic card set for dvcprohd, and output thru the component cables to the in on the monitor,…This shouldnt be a problem, with your blackmagic card…But check the documentation…
Im not picking on you, but it is not the school that is setup for HDV… Your software and or final cut may be preset to work in HDV, but that can easily be changed. Just select the right presets, or create your own.Your timeline can also be preset or select your own. HDV is a very tough format to work with, it is highly compressed, and comes with its own set of problems. In My opinion, and again Im not an expert, DVCProHD is a much better format to shoot in, and the HVX presents with many opportunities….
I know this is a lot to ask at once, but I am desperate! Tomorrow, I am going to simply try editing in DVCPRO HD 29.97, and see how I feel about the interlacing, because I can’t see how to make the clips true 24p and look good.
Forget about interlaced or progressive, concentrate on your technique, your story, your sound.. When people come out of a theater they dont wonder if the movie was shot in high def, on an HVX or on a Genesis… They just want to be entertained. you can achieve this on Interlaced or progressive. But if you are going to go to film, you definately want to make the right choice.. and.. check your bank account…Cause unless you have a film that can make you money or some investors, it is costly to go to film..
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The camera will output timecode, recorded time to a monitor as long as you are using either the firewire, or component output. If you are using a tape deck that accepts firewire in, it will send the timecode but your deck must be able to accept or jam to the timecode it is receiving. Usually only high end tape decks can do this. Other wise, the timecode recorded will be the one that the deck is creating. this means that the deck timecode will not match exactly to the original timecode.
For monitoring purposes you dont have to worry about the timecode, cause it will simply display the timecode of the recorded footage. It will do this only thru the component out of the camera.
The one problem that I have with this camera, which didnt bother me up until a couple of months ago was the inability of the camera to jam to/from an external device. But you cant have everything…
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It sounds to me that you need better people who know how to key, and can do it better than your average joe. I can key, using AE and FC but when people who do only that have done it for jobs Ive had, big difference…
Great keying, depends on precise, lighting, exposure, shooting. Yes the best color rendition, 4:2:2, or 4:4:4 even better. But aside from the HVX, xdcams, HDcams, beta, varis etc..sonys, panasonic, Red etc… it all boils down to returning to the basics. Precise lighting, accurate exposures, and right shooting.The DVCPRO HD format, does very well, yes the bigger chips etc, will perform better. So Sony HDcams, and Panasonic HD, and the venerable Varis can do better. But you will spend 80-100k between the camera’s lenses, not to mention decks etc.. Unless of course you rent. Just my thought, I dont know everything definately, but do know, that there is no substitute for the basics..
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Thanks Will,
After reading so much, I thought that this would be the best way. Im investing in the 702T to do the master recording and have a timecode on the audio. Since the HVX wont accept timecode in from anything other than another video cam in DV mode or another HVX only to sync up multiple cameras, then I will slate each shot, and use the timecode from the 702T. Then like you said, import the audio from the 702 to line up each shot with the timecode. thanks again.
George
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Set up a lav mike on the groom. He would be the closest to the bride, and close enough to the groom. That would pick up the important voices. Leave your other channel for ambient, try and use a good shotgun to pick up the ambient front sound. Set both levels carefully, and monitor your audio thru a good headset. Always start with fresh batteries. I typically use, Sennheiser E-100 lav trans.rec unit, channel 1, and channel 2, a sennheiser mk-66 mike on camera. The audio quality is very good.
Good luck.
George
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Using 320×240, AAC Stereo, 100 % frame rate, multi pass on, H264 at 800kbps.
These are the pertinent settings, I know using higher levels of compressing and shutting off multi pass, can decrease the time, but I have tried these and the quality suffers, especially with more motion in the video. I really do think, that there isnt much to fix other than, to either find some hardware solution, or seriously compromise quality.
But thanks for your interest and answer.George
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Hi Im not sure, about part of the question?
The issue that you are having with compression times, is the same that Im having. All averages seem to indicate that the it is about 1hr per 10min clip. so if you are doing 60mins than the average for most macs, DP 2.5ghz or greater would be about 6hrs +… Of course that does depend on other issues such as drives being used etc..
The part of the question that I dont understand is the “streaming” issue to the xbox. I have an xbox and didnt know you could strream to it?? If you want to view it, than you can copy to it but I thought it would have to be thru a DVD or CD. The other issue is you are trying to create WMVfiles which are pretty big files, FCP doesnt support WMV files, their are conversion programs out there like flip4mac etc.. They can convert files back and forth. Very time consuming and not work the time, unless you have a very specific reason. QT filese are much easier to work with and are the basis for MACs.. Im not an expert as you may see I ask for help from the gurus here often. If you are interested in archiving tv shows etc. The best way is to just burn the shows directly to DVD using any of the DVD direct burners on the market. Some of them will not allow you to copy shows that maintain a copyright like macrovision etc.. But there are workarounds.. One that is used often is that you can use your camcorder to copy to DV and than use the same camcorder to go to the burner…
Just a thought…
Ok, … I checked the xbox and you can stream by connecting a PC.. So not sure about the Mac now.. It does require software on your PC, which Im just assuming although I could be wrong, its not available for a MAC, you know the microsoft phenomena..
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Hi and thanks for the interest in helping.
I did put the info in my post but here goes. Im using a Mac Dual Proc. 2.5 G5 tower, with 8gigs of ram and medea raid drive. Im exporting the file thru compressor using the Web Setting for Quicktime 7 which works and produces great files for me. In the frame size setting, Im using 320 x240.
the video is shot on a HVX 200, in 720P60 and edited on FCP 5.2. Once edited, Im exporting to compressor with the settings above. It is pretty slow… some of the specs I have read do complain about the 1 hr per 10min time rate for compressing… So Im sure it is not my machine, since everything works fine with no problem.
When exporting I do export the timeline from my raid drive, to the internal sata drive. All specs, and recomendations have indicated that exporting from 1 fast drive to another fast drive is better than working and exporting within the same drive.
Really my question is have anyone used elgato, hardware usb device used to speed up compresion.
Second question is are there any hardware compression device that will work on a mac which will speed up the process. We are trying to make the video shot available online faster than now. It presently takes us about 4hrs to get it out and to the web clients.
1hr. editing, 2hrs+ , compressing and then another 1hr to get it into the right flash or web format..
tks
George