[David Rodney]

Cheers.

It appears the general rule (if you shooting freelance News in Australia, for example), appears to be $495.00 per half day + GST or $795 per full day + GST. These prices are with your own equipment. Not sure about operator-only, as I haven’t done that for years and doesn’t really apply to my situation.

Corporate rates are different as far as I can tell. Might be wrong on this.

Unless you are in the “click” of freelancers in the city and in demand for some reason, I am not so sure experience counts for much as far as charging is concerned.

Apologies for my “green-ness” on this, but I have been shooting news for nearly 20 years and have just recently been dropped back in the world of corporate video out of necessity.

[David Rodney]

All good points, thank you.

[David Rodney]

I think I was a little too laid-back in this situation because of the ease of dealing with the other department previously. That department has never asked me to quote and has never questioned my invoices. Mind you, I know I am much cheaper than those they were using before.

I was also probably taken for a ride believing that all they had to spend was what they said. I should have, at that point, stuck to my original quote and stipulated what they got for that amount, because I know I am SO much cheaper than others they have used.

Yep, I blew it. Never again, however. Now all I have to do is work out how I can avoid being taken further down the track of being ripped off on this little ride I am being taken on.

Again, I will have to wait for their requested changes before I can make judgement. “Some changes” might meant two, it might mean 30. Let’s wait and see.

I mean, it might all be horribly innocent…the client perhaps could just believe any changes take very little time….

Then again, maybe not.

[David Rodney]

Hey Bob, thanks for the insight.

The original job was to cover the event – and the obvious outcome would have been to edit that into something they could utilise. I was expecting a DVD, but the separate files for their intranet was acceptable. JUST.

I guess I have to wait to receive the list o changes before jumping to any conclusions. As I said, I am bewildered at what they can have changed, because the whole shoot/production was so straight-forward. Just like recording an event for prosperity.

I guess the only thing they can change is the presentation of each clip such as titles/music/branding etc. But this will still equate to edit and one-hour render for each of the 6 clips.

I think at this point, the time to say “Whoa, this is more than we discussed” will be if he comes back with an unreasonable list of required changes. This will also save face with the others I have worked with in this company already and charged more for their jobs. FOr them, I will have to be ready to answer their questions as to why their jobs cost more, too!

What I have learned here is to not be fooled by “We need this done quickly, so we don’t have time to formalise quotes” and clearly state what they will get for the money I have agreed to and any more work will cost more money.

Cheers and thanks for taking the time to respond, Bob.

[David Rodney]

Mark and Matt, all good info, thanks.

The fact is they called and asked me to record a presentation evening for their records. When I quoted them, they said “we don’t have that much in the budget, but we can afford $XXXX”

The real issue is that they didn’t really tell me all what they required for this production until after the shoot was completed. The whole production was presented as a basic shoot for their records. Perhaps I missed the boat at the appropriate time and should have said then…after finding out they wanted 6 separate videos from the night “hang on, that’s not what we were of the understanding that we were quoting on”, and they would have to realise they didn’t help us out in the information department.

But I went ahead with the edit of the 6 videos anyway, knowing we could cop it on the chin as long as it went no further. And we were thinking it would go no further as we followed those instructions.

The fact is the brief was simple: “could you come and shoot a presentation evening we have this Friday”. Sounded pretty simple. I made the mistake of assuming they wanted a basic shoot and edit perhaps to DVD for their records. It’s what it sounded like in the beginning. They gave us no reason to believe otherwise.

But I have actually provided what they wanted now and I just do not understand what could be changed, anyway, as it was such a simple production – shoot to record a function for their records. It wasn’t like we were shooting something with a million variables (like a TVC) and being left to my own devices to produce it….

Whose fault is this? The client because they didn’t really provide enough information on the production in the first place, or ours because we didn’t ask enough questions?

I will wait to see what changes they are requesting (as I said I am not really sure WHAT they could want changed) and then consider my response. Perhaps I am being paranoid and they will come back with minor changes.

I see my real problem now is that I have to find a diplomatic way of saying “We weren’t advised of and, therefore, didn’t quote on this type of production and the time allocated for the job as discussed initially has been exhausted…these extra edits are going to cost more” without upsetting the apple cart.

Damned if I do (creating a sense of conflict on our first experience with them) and damned if I don’t (making a rod for our backs with not being able to charge more to the other divisions in the future”.

My only saving grace might be that when I go to quote again I will have the opportunity to defend my quote on this job by saying “yes, but it started out as one thing, and ended up being another”.

Any minor changes will require re-rendering of the videos which takes up to an hour each, which could, with all the fiddling required, mean a re-edit of each video might take up another 12 hours of work.

Thanks again,

David

[David Rodney]

Yes, good advice.

When times are tough like they are currently for freelance video producers here in Australia…what do you do?

Do you take some work and at least get SOME money (at least some cash-flow), or do you quote what you would reasonably like to get/should get and not get the work?

As I said, the job would have been fine if there were no further edits. The problem has been caused by not getting the client’s requirements before the quote was formalised and, in hindsight, it appears the client didn’t even know what they wanted until after the shoot and they saw what went on.

That said, after the shoot, they had asked me for 6 separate videos from the event (without detailed instructions for each – just one video of each of the 6 presenters/speakers that were there) and so I did what they asked: produced 6 videos and supplied them to the client. Now they have had a look at them, they are taking the weekend to work out what they want changed.

I think they are just totally oblivious to the amount of work it will take to make changes. Then again, perhaps they don’t care.

[David Rodney]

Thanks Mike.

I seem to be filling a niche where large corporates want to do “throw-away” videos for their intranets but do not want to pay advertising-agency-related rates, yet still want an acceptable job. A lot of the time, the client cannot be bothered with the complexities of advertising agency protocols for the most simplest of videos – videos that might have an expiry date one week or one month after their production – so they use me to produce something well, but cheaply…the option is not to get them done at all.

So, what this means is – they come to me with a budget: “this is all we want to pay for this job” and you either do it or quote so high that they choose not to do it…and risk losing future work.

The way this client organises things, there is NO WAY they would be able to look over agreements (or want to, for that matter) for such simple, throw-away videos. If it became complex, they just wouldn’t do it.

I have heard they use me because I make things simple for them and do a good job that suits their needs. I just get the job done without a fuss and don’t charge the earth.

Just gotta make sure I don’t get cornered in the future…

Have learned a valuable lesson here this week.

[David Rodney]

Thanks Bruce. Good idea.

In regards to quoting, I would be interested in what methods other production companies use to quote.

To me, it has been one of the most difficult things for the company to master.

Most clients I have dealt with have never been able to detail the job enough to give a firm/correct quote…and all we have really done is gone off previous jobs as a guide.

Are there certain software packages you can use to quote (specifically for video production) and are there generic contracts/forms that you can forward to the client for them to fill out so you know exactly what they want out of a job and if there is an argument later, you can refer to their request?

Thanks so much,

David

[David Rodney]

Walter, some good advice there, thank you. I didn’t think of the possible repercussions until after it was done and this was a real “doh” moment, if ever there was one. But it was done quite innocently as I felt we weren’t going to get the work unless we worked in with the budget. And, honestly, the way the job was originally outlined, the money we were getting was adequate.

The real problem here, I guess, is that there is no official “agreement” as to what they get for the money.

I am not convinced this has painted us into a corner as far as charging the company in the future goes, however, because as far as future quotes go, if anyone brings up this cheaper price, we will explain that it should have been for a basic shoot and edit only.

The question is now, though: should I approach the contact and let him know that we agreed to fit in with their budget because the outline was a straight-forward shoot and edit, or will this make us look unprofessional enough for them not to use us again?

Thanks again.

David

[David Rodney]

Thanks Ken,

Please pardon my ignorance, but is scaling-down in After Effects preferable to scaling down to title-safe in Final Cut?

David