[Tim Wilson]

Part 1 is an overview of what ProRes IS, what ProRes is NOT (10-bit, lossless, RGB, cross-platform, etc.), performance, use, challenges, real-world system use, and more. You can find it here.

Part 2 starts with follow-up Q&A from part 1, then dives into HDV, Color, 24P, and every combination of these. It also has even more on real-world systems using ProRes. You can find that one here.

While I’m at it, I’ll remind folks that we have a shiny new tutorial and article index that you should really check out. It makes finding your way through our nearly 1000 articles a breeze. You can click on the “Tutorials & Articles” link in the header above, or just click here.

Thanks,
Tim

[Tim Wilson]

I’m the sort-of author, which is to say, the articles were composed entirely by copying and pasting threads from the dozen+ forums where ProRes conversations were happening.

That said, the things you’re asking about are among the very few I know about myself. 🙂

[Rapscallion] “so when he says that PRORES is actually higher data rate, and therefore indisputably the best codec with the most headroom I’d have to say, “huh?”.”

That’s the exact opposite of the data I gathered. 🙂

Although out of the whole article, this was one of the parts I feel I actually know something about, and wasn’t just copy-pasting.

The comparison of ProRes and uncompressed is to SD, not HD. That’s a comparison that Apple makes, as well as the one that Avid has been using for several years with their DNxHD, which ProRes is clearly modeled on. And indeed, 8-bit uncompressed NTSC SD is around 200 megaBITS/sec., that is, 200 megaBITS.

Which is why the ProRes data rate of 220 megaBITS for 1080i/60 is indeed jaw-dropping.

The other megaBIT numbers I cited were for:
HDCAM = 140 megaBITS
DVCPRO HD = 100 megaBITS

My point there is that calling ProRes 145 “lightweight” ONLY makes sense in comparison to 1:1 HD. It’s heavier than HDCAM and DVCPRO HD, much MUCH heavier than HDV.

I also point out that, because of the strains of compressing ProRes in real time, ProRes is simply a no go as a capture codec for the vast majority of FCP customers — even for G4 FCP-ers who are capturing 10-bit uncompressed HD just fine. That’s because 1:1 HD isn’t processor-intensive. It’s drive-intensive, both for space and speed. But if you have the drives for it, uncompressed HD editing has been working fine for a long time now.

Part 2 of the article focuses on HDV, which has some special issues – ProRes offers some advantages even though it’s 5-ish times heavier than HDV.

I know that’s not your workflow, but the point is that I say many, many times that ProRes offers DISadvantages of space and performance, maybe even dealbreaking performance as a capture format.

The primary advantages are for 1:1 HD production, and for cleanliness of renders in HDCAM, DVCPRO HD, HDV, and others that were designed as capture formats, not production formats.

All of this is why I’d never call ProRes indisputably the best codec. The primary observation of the two articles is that too many people are jumping on ProRes because it’s new and sounds cool, without looking at the best ways to use it…if indeed its worth using for them at all.

I think, used properly, that it’s more useful than not for most people. I was also straight up with some criticisms, notably, that lack of 4:4:4 and RGB makes it useless for film or graphics work, among others.

That’s one reason I don’t, and doubt Apple would, call it “indisputably the best codec.” Even if Apple did, they’d get some collegial pushback from Avid, who shipped the same technology (same DCT compression, same data rates, even the same marketing language)years earlier.

And yes, ProRes 220 at megaBITS per second is very, very compressed compared to uncompressed HD. 🙂

I hope this helps!

Best,
Tim

[Tim Wilson]

Aharon will be delighted to know that someone’s clicking on his head. 🙂

[Tim Wilson]

[Tim Wilson]

[Ron Lindeboom] “Amen, Tim. That was what Kathlyn and I found when we were quite active in our area Chamber, Rotary, etc. The pro bono work opened the door for more of the same but nothing else.”

We experienced the opposite. Of course we did it the opposite way, too. We used the CoC and Rotary solely to form relationships in the business community, and to support non-profits we believed in. We never once asked for a job from any of business crowd.

Instead, we went directly to the non-profits, whose business we really wanted. Some of it was ecosystem-related — we courted video business that others were turning away — and some was out of the same impulse that leads everyone to do a job for free. You see someone you want to help, and you help ’em.

More than that, we wanted to build a business on helping people. So from the beginning, every request for free video work was simply turned away. We told them, we don’t give away our core services any more than the phone company does. If you want what they got, you’ll pay the same rate everyone else does. Same here

So we’ll buy a raffle ticket or bake a pie. We’ll even join some groups as volunteers. But if you’re serious about funding your efforts, you’ll make a video with us, and spend more time helping the (whatever).

Pretty soon, we had the non-profit BUSINESS in our area locked down.

Among the only services we offered for free was helping them figure out how to earn back a lot more than what they spent with us. Part of that included putting them in front of live audiences where they could show their videos and ask for money.

Where did we point them? The Chamber and the Rotary of course, who already knew us as supporters of non-profits…. and who were always looking for high-quality presentations. They trusted us to deliver the goods. It got to where they ASKED to see our fundraising videos at their meetings. “Got any new projects we can show?”

Another thing we gave away was helping the non-profits figure out how to spend the money they raised with us for maximum effect.

100% of our commercial work came from big-boned cats who saw the impact of our PAID work for their favorite charities. When they wanted us to do the same for their business, they already knew it was gonna cost ’em. That’s when they found out that our commercial rates were a little different than our non-profit rates after all. 🙂

We got some really big commercial gigs over the years, including a couple of TV shows. But over the life of our business, NOTHING like our money from non-profits.

BTW, if you need to do a free job or two to start out, do your OWN free jobs. We got not one, but TWO separate real estate shows with a two-part pitch video: a spec opening animation (with the client’s name and logo, natch), and a video we made of our own house.

We made all our biggest mistakes on our own time, and learned a lot of good things we could use even if we never got these jobs. Having targets is better than just “trying to learn” software, and, apart from the pitch-ees, nobody knows that you did any work for free. And THEY knew we were in it for the money.

And we wound up working shoulder to shoulder on non-profit ventures we cared about, and they never asked us for free video work.

[Ron Lindeboom] “We…made our pro bono efforts…help some of our friends and leaders here when they get in trouble. Much more direct and a hell of a lot more rewarding. ;o)”

As one of the beneficiaries of that pro bono work over the years, I’m a firm believer in The Golden COW Rule: give unto The COW as you would have them give unto you. 🙂

[Tim Wilson]

[Dean Sensui] “I looked up and thought, “If she falls she’s gonna break my neck. Why do they need to do that right here!””

I saw the Girls Gone Wild phenomenon coming years before it was commercialized. I remember doing some commercial shoots around a huge resort. The job was videotaping signage: sponsors were paying $1 million/week for this event, and wanted to be sure that nobody put their inflatable Drambuie bottle on the quarterdeck when they paid for the marina. God forbid.

While I was standing in line at the water fountain, Betacam on the ground at my feet. young ladies walked by, lifting their shirts and hollering “Woo-hoo! Camera guy!” Many, many times a day, even when the camera wasn’t actually anywhere near me.

To which the only possible reply is “Thank you!” Which is what I said as I waved. But no point shooting stuff like that. No kidding, it’s just not professional. And frankly, just not polite.

Eventually just hollered “Thanks!” without even looking. It got embarrassing, and I really did have a ton of shooting to do. The sun was so hot I could barely breathe — half a dozen people were taken out in ambulances for heatstroke that afternoon, besides the dozens more being treated on site.

I was choking in dust, sand in my shoes, the whole bit. Carrying a BSP camera in shooting case with batteries, plus tapes, sticks, (definitely not run and gun because of the dollars at stake), blah blah blah. Genuinely one of the miserable jobs ever. The sooner I finished shooting, the sooner I could go back into the air conditioning and start getting paid for this wretched day.

As a result, the words I said most often during the shoot were….

“Pardon me miss, can you please put your top on and move out of the way of that sign?”

Tapping my foot impatiently, looking at my watch while I set up for the next shot.

The funny thing is that, ten years later, I still get mad thinking about it. Hey! Will you hurry up already?!? Not all of us are here on vacation! I’m working here, dammit!!

[Tim Wilson]

[John Davidson] “and me saying ‘dudes, maybe the guy just wrote his post hastily and made a semantic error in judgement”. Then my age was exposed (33) and suddenly I no longer had a right to comment on the subject because I don’t know anything.”

On one hand, I’ll quote the great sage Yogi Berra, “Nobody knows anything.”

On the other hand, you’re the ONLY one who knew the truth, that the guy’s word choice was unfortunate. He replied with apologies, and said he didn’t care if you were 99 – please get in touch.

Hey, I’m 104!! Ageist bastard!!!

Anyway, my point being that anybody who offers real money for a job at The COW should be shown the benefit of the doubt, which other than you, was pretty rare.

So a gold star for the kid. At 33, you’re the same age as my beard. Seriously. But you get a gold star nonetheless.

tw

[Tim Wilson]

[gravelroads17@hotmail.com] ”
You are right. I apologize for the way I listed the job. All I meant by “young” was young at hear. I do not care if you aree 99 years old, if you can edit bring on the resume. And all I meant by “hungry” was willing to and ready to dig deep and go the long haul. Again I did not mean to ostracize anyone, I am willing to look at any and all clip reels and in no way will discriminate in any shape, form, or fashion. Please send reels my way. Thanks.”

This thread has been moved to the “Jobs Offered, Higher Pay” board. Please note that all job listings should posted in one of the two appropriate forums.

If you have any questions or comments about this administative action, please don’t hesitate to write me, tim at creativecow, etc. You can reach me even more quickly by calling 617 947 4733.

Best,
Tim

[Tim Wilson]

For the best answers on comparing and contrasting Red, XDCAM and P2 cameras, please head to the HD High-End forum.

This forum is for what happens AFTER you shoot. 🙂

Best,
Tim

[Tim Wilson]

[Nick Griffin] “don’t buy the ROS (run of station is what this used to stand for) rotation for $5 a spot. That means your spots land all over the place”

True, true…with one exception. When I ran a production company in the Florida Keys, our primary local audience was people who worked in the hospitality industry, from the highest management (people who owned multiple resorts) to the most challenged labor (people who worked in multiple bars or restaurants just to get by.)

As a result, absolutlely none of our most valuable target audience was available during prime time. Laborers were laboring, bosses were wining and dining the swells.

But because a work day might begin at 7 AM, 7 PM, or some other odd hour, ROS offered tremendous bang for the buck. The spots were all over the place just like our audience’s schedule.

To go one step further, the most typical place for ROS spots to wind up is in the middle of the night, or other fringe slots. For me, this worked out just right.

For most markets, better to buy fewer spots in the slots your audience is most likely watching. Which is why companies pay millions for a 30-second spot in the Super Bowl — a hundred million people are watching. So pick the channels and times your audience is watching. You could easily wind up spending less for a bigger result.

Which is why I strongly agree with Nick about TV buys: unless your audience lives in the margins of the schedule, you’re going to have to buy a lot of ROS spots to see any ROI.

You like that? I just now thought of it. 🙂

My only variation on Nick’s other theme is that TV only works if your product or service is attractive to a broad, general audience. Video production rarely fits that bill. In our case we went for it anyway because we were using our video business as a stepping stone to other things….but that’s another story. 🙂