Clint Wardlow
Forum Replies Created
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Maybe it was my terminology. I can be kind of clunky with language at times. The reason I called them bootlegs, is because my friend burned unauthorized copies and gave them to me. To my mind that is a bootleg.
I agree once exchange of money enters into the deal, it is a whole different ball of wax.
However, it is the monied pirating that is never going away. All the anti-piracy measures by software makers will only really prevent what I described above, not those mercenary enough figure a way to make a buck off the deal.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I don’t know why religion/religious text was even brought in to this conversation.”
The reason it was brought in was because of the black and white way it was labled as theft, when the implications are much greyer. We can talk in moral certainties all we want.
However, the friend who had given me the discs had bought them. He considered those discs he had purchased as his. As far as he was concerned (and I am not saying he was right), terms of service agreements were just legal petty fogging — mind you this was over a decade ago and thinking has shifted a lot since those times. He had paid good money for those discs and as far as he was concerned if he wanted to give copies to a friend, it was his right.
Now, I didn’t even really consider the morality of it all. I just thought, “cool here is some software I can’t afford right now to play with.” So maybe it was a theft. I’m not sure. Neither he or I financially benefited from it. The ones who benefited were the software makers, because I purchased copies as soon as I could afford. I am not saying what I did was morally justified. I am just saying it was a common practice (and I suspect it still is)and asking, questions of lofty morality aside, how harmful a practice it really is. I think the only difference between me and many others (including many on this board) is I just fessed up to it.
Intellectual property is a tricky thing. If you make a mix cd of your favorite music and give it to your girl friend, does that make you and her a thief? You are definitely not authorized to do so. Are you robbing the artist of royalties due them.
It is not so black and white. I am not saying what I did was right or wrong. It was just a pretty common practice back then. Are all those folks who made tapes or CDs from albums thieves? Or those that taped movies off of HBO? If so, there are a lot of thieves in this ole world.
It is easy to pass moral judgement. And feel free to do so.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I was just wondering if you saw it in this one thread or if you are talking about the general reaction to Creative Cloud on the internet.
Put simply, I’m not sure who or what is righteously indignified, but I am a fool.”
Hey I guess I am being a little hard here. We all (including myself) have our moments of righteous indignation. And it does happen on this forum from time to time. And it has certainly been aimed at both FCPX and now CC. I guess we all have to get up on our high horse every now and again.
And like I said before, it is all my own fault anyway for violating the internet prime directive: never confess or post anything personal or give an opinion online unless you want to draw heat.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “[Clint Wardlow] “My question was not about the morality, but the reality.”
So you should have asked, “how many of you use unlicensed software?” instead of “is bootlegging really so bad”?”
Maybe so.
[Jeremy Garchow] “[Clint Wardlow] “I am seeing a lot of righteous indignation here ”
Like what, specifically?”
Look I am not naming names here. Frankly, flame wars can become tedious. But, I think it is pretty obvious.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Yes, it is why we have laws. Are you suggesting that Adobe is breaking a law, fixing prices, or gouging? If so, I’d like to hear about it.”
Wasn’t really aiming at Adobe at all. Was responding to your general statement that “theft is bad” with an equally general “not always.”
As to Adobe, I have been a paying customer for years and will continue to be as I am a Cloud subscriber. Although I do think they can be pricey, I certainly am not accusing them of price gouging or monopoly.
I am seeing a lot of righteous indignation here (and this isn’t necessarily directed at you, Jeremy). I was just being honest about my path into becoming a paying customer (a journey in which I am sure I am not alone despite the many loud moral judgements). I guess I should be blamed for violating the first rule of the internet: never confess to anything online.
My question was not about the morality, but the reality.
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[Jeremy Garchow] ” You are asking if theft is bad”
Not being judeo-christian or tied to the ten commandments, I can say there are time when theft is not bad. Sometimes it is the moral thing to do.
I am not saying using bootlegged software is one of them (although some of my more militant open-source friends might believe so). But the real question is not whether it is right or wrong. Morality was not what I was looking for.
My question was if it was harmful? And if so, just how harmful?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Here’s what happens when you give the people what they want for a fair price:”
I agree with this. I bet piracy of FCPX took it on the nose with the drastic price drop.
Adobe may have some success with Creative Cloud.
Still the analogy of bootlegging with theft is right on some marks and wrong on others. If companies use ownership to drive prices up and gouge the consumer, where is the ethics in that? That is why we have anti-monopoly and price-fixing laws.
As to the morals of intellectual properties (such as the aforementioned fictional reel of DC) that is a whole nother can of worms.
And as to bootlegged software –perhaps I am just being more honest here and perhaps not. Are you guys really saying you have never used a friend’s licence to get a software that was expensive (Jeremy at least fessed up)? Are we all really all that pure? Right or wrong I have a feeling more people that will admit have dirty hands in this respect.
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[Andy Field] “How long will you stay in business with that bootleg model?”
Yeah all the bootlegging of Adobe software has sure put them at risk as a company.
Boy, I touched a nerve with this one.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “When you move from hobbyist to someone who needs to support your family with these tools, you will feel differently as you won’t want your paycheck “bootlegged” either.”
Love your snide devaluation of my post. Not sure how my being a “hobbyist” or bootlegs of expensive software (I am sure families of Adobe execs aren’t eating table scraps) takes a dime out of your pocket.
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[Gary Huff] “ou mean like the majority of those films from the silent era?”
Not just silent films, but home movies, exploitation films of the 60s,videotape, books and the like all turning to dust and vinegar. I book printed two hundred years ago has a better chance of surviving than one printed last week due to the acid in the paper.
It has nothing to do with Adobe. However, in the future if someone finds a drawer full of thumb drives, what will they do with them. Will they be as accessible as a drawer full of negatives or super8 films?
I’ve lamented about this before. I guess I just have to make my peace with the fact that we live in a society of disposable art (which it has been for a long time, but is speeding up with the technology).