Chris Magid
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Yeah. But it has been a long while since you could buy Adrenaline or Nitris DNAs. Unless they are concerned about the used market.
Guess they could be.
chris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com -
In addition to all frame rates, you may also want to double check that the AJA will do downconversion, cross conversion and up conversion while being used my the Avid. This is not via switching the project type. This is simultaneous output via the video output tool settings.
The Nitris DX does a great job at this without slowing anything down. Pretty helpful, even if you are just monitoring or distributing screening copies.
All outputs are active all the time. It will also do 4:4;4 RGB. It is a solid, full featured piece of hardware.
BTW, we are becoming predominately file based but still find need to downconvert to SD tape or ingest downconverted HD layoffs as the hardware scaling beats anything we can find in software for creation of DVDs.
DNXHD decoding occurs in BOB which should also speed a few things up but only in realtime “mode”. Once you have to render something there is no benefit.
If you plan to work in AVC INTRA via Panasonic P2 or otherwise, the new Nitris DX box has hardware decoding for that as well. Same caveat, as this should only benefit real time playback of multi-stream content…although I cannot say for sure.
Also by sticking with the Avid stuff you we be able to side step any future issues by knowing it will support the full feature set without excuse.
Nitris DX is one thing Avid got right. It is a little pricey though. Who knows, if it was more competitively priced maybe FCP or Premiere guys would begging for a version for them.
Chris Magid
RTVFchris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com -
Fred.
Appreciate your candor and your answers. I do not have a great wealth of knowledge about cinema zooms and assorted lens accessories.
The relay lens sounds like something to avoid. But they are sold. Never used one and on your advice I am skeptical. Able has some other sort of adapter they use to put B4 lenses on Phantoms (which have a slightly smaller sensor). So just wondering about options and results.
Time will deliver more solutions. Curious to see what sony and others coms up with for the F3 and yet to be released lower end 35mm cameras. Perhaps used affordable cinema zooms with a fair amount of range are also worth searching for. Need to get close to 250mm.
There is a way I want to use the Alexa with only a flexible zoom attached. The majority of my shooting is documentary style or infotainment style shooting. Recently some of this work was in war zones, on aircraft carriers, on board aircraft, around military bases, quick moving sports events, concerts and other unfriendly environments where primes are unworkable, asking for trouble or even camera damage. I also have to occasionally deal with cargo restrictions and limited crew sizes. On tamer reality based run-n-gun productions the goals of the schedule or nature of the content can prevent a prime lens friendly workflow. Zooms would also come in very handy for interviews.
Even though this may be dumbed down and not optimum I do think it would produce superior results to the Varicam / EFP video zoom combination I use now. There could be lots of benefits due to Alexa’s great imager and extended latitude in a broadcast/docu sort of application.
When my company does narrative or advertising style work we hire DPs because I am more of just a “shooter”. Like Clint Eastwood said “a man has to know his limitations” and my skills are not sharp enough nor is my knowledge thorough enough for me to meet my own qualifications to hire myself as a DP on some jobs. I’ve learned to just make sure you use the right folks.
Those jobs acquire via HD with Pro35 adapter these days. We typically spec with primes only because in many configurations putting a zoom on front on a P35 adapted Varicam is a bit of a monster. P&S cautions on their use to due to vignetting too. Otherwise surprisingly nice results from their relay lens system going the other way from big to small.
I understand why you suggest using a zoom for greatly flexibility and look forward to doing so on a 35mm native camera…or at least equipping the DPs we work with as such.
We only do up to 24 days a year as such so it gets hard to justify buying a set of ultra primes that would include a 180mm and a zoom. That’s why we rent. My rule is not to finance anything so cash flow becomes an issue. And I try not to buy gear that doesn’t pay for itself in 2 or 3 years. Probably why I am finally debt free.
Alexa could be a great fit for both styles of work.
Again. Thank you for the education and opinions.
Sounds like you are frying bigger fish and at a faster pace than I.
Chris Magid
RTVFchris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com -
Very true.
However, the ability to not deliver what is being promised points to something to wrong somewhere.
Funny, I almost mentioned the uncompressed Adrenaline HD option. I remember that. Along with their old white-paper touting the benefits of 8 bit video over 10 bit video. I also remember some direct emails long ago calming my DVE concerns with how awesome the then forthcoming 16bit OpenGL DVE would be.
Improving your reputation among those with long memories is tough climb. Heck, if I could associate with a more forgetful lot of people my own reputation would be a lot better.
3rd party stuff is one thing, native hardware and software another. Product lifetime paths or involving users with development plans are within reason for expensive post products. Other industries like telecom, microprocessors and automobile manufacturers do this to varying degrees. Doesn’t have to be extremely specific or in great detail.
Arri has been forthcoming with the growth plan for Alexa. Sony has long stated their intentions with the SRW camera by projecting SR cards and the 35mm sensor. RED was practically selling balsa wood when they outlined their first cameras. Maybe not the best example but it does happen.
Avid did this at the turn of the century discussing Symphony’s expansion into the 2.0 product even before 1.0 shipped. The development of the color corrector was pretty open and involving of industry veterans, not in beta but in consultation. As were many early versions of Composer.
Most recently a lot of customers want to know what is going to become of Symphony or the product in general, etc.
It is a win-win. It lets purchasers make better more confident decisions, prevents some defection to competitors, helps retain finances for future expenditures. It also assists the main manufacturer and 3rd party developers avoid mistakes.
Maybe Avid could of found out that turing up the heat on 64 bit and down on smart tools would meant more sales quicker and more happy users. Direct Arri Raw support may also have been a better move too.
However it only works if there is sincerity and folks aren’t really flying by the seat of their pants. You got to have a plan to share it.
I’m happy that 64 bit is on the way. Don’t think that will be vapor ware.
I still want to know what hardware purchases I should be weary of.
Chris Magid
RTVFchris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com -
Job,
Don’t sell yourself short. You may want to consider a second career as a lawyer. Please do not take that as criticism. Rather it is a compliment for your deft decoding of Avid’s statement. Personally I think they could share a little more concerning the future of flagship or key products, in that same spirit.
Terence,
No real sour grapes here. Machines are machines.
I just thought it was an odd announcement, especially in light of Avid’s usual tight lipped approach.
Nice to know but it is sort of a big yawn. If they didn’t have 64bit on the way, they would be in big trouble. So this is making a big deal out of nothing. It better be in their product plan along with the plans of all providers of imagining or video software. Sort of like Ford making a big announcement that they will continue to sell their cars with tires.
So it seems like Avid is yelling “we plan to keep up”, from the back of the crowd.
I do hope you are right about the current direction of the company and their products. The recent history of releases doesn’t really blow me over. Some features had to happen to stay competitive, some like motion adaption and RED support are nicely done and some I think were complete wastes of resources like smart tools.
Its a draw. Good and bad. However I am very grateful for the good.
Many long standing issues remain. Symphony is still dying on the vine along with the color corrector, as it is did under the last administration. (Symphony should really be merged with composer at this point). Major architecture changes like the move to 64bit mirror their past tardiness in key technical areas.
Overall it seems the same to me. Maybe even worse. I see the move to 3rd party hardware as a mistake. Manufacturing or OEMing competitively priced hardware could of been a better option. I also see the a la carting of multiple software elements as a problem too. Both really water down a particular competitive advantage that Avid once had and may create a lot of support issues. Just makes Avid more like the others. For the most part, it used be a Composer, was a Composer, was a Composer. Producers sort of like to know what they are getting when they hire folks and gear.
Now, since capabilities (including frame rates), options and etc vary…who knows what sort of Avid suite you may be rolling into. What sort of support, upgrade snafus or product lifespan await those on 3rd party hardware?
It is nice to see that the Symphony issue is getting a direct response. Kudos to the product manager. You are right that there has been a better vibe around the company. Although I would rather see tasty features and big improvements versus haggling over upgrade pricing.
Interesting times.
Chris Magid
RTVFchris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com -
Avid wants users to spread the word about a product that doesn’t exist yet? (Well, at least not outside the lab)
Great. Smells of desperation.
Beside don’t they usually hide behind Sarbanes–Oxley and other SEC mumbo jumbo regarding speaking about future products? Which is absolute BS. It is only a shield when convenient for them. This 64 bit evangelical campaign makes you wonder.
Truth is, there are things which can be discussed, polled and talked about without raising the ire of the feds, especially when it benefits customers. Product roadmaps are frequently openly discussed by public companies such as Intel and many in the telecom sector.
Avid just doesn’t have much to say about the tough stuff like criticism of 5.5, questions about Symphony development, feature requests, user issues (bugs), the whole smart tools fiasco or price structure. They will however chime in pretty quickly when the discussion is about Academy Awards, the competition and such.
It may very well be that this very public announcement is simply to save a little face regarding their tardiness and the impending release of 64 bit software from competitors like Apple. Which you may be inclined to purchase and explore.
Unless they say WHEN the move to 64 bit would occur it SHOUD NOT affect your purchase decision on any hardware or software.
What hardware are they talking about? Is it even possible to buy a CPU that is not 64 bit capable or ready? What applicable hardware is not 64 bit compatible?
Seems very sketchy and amateurish to me.
Maybe they should pass on some other details. Add some info on the Symphony roadmap and etc, so you don’t blow your money on stuff…since they seem to care so much.
Since this sexy 64bit version is on the way shortly you may also want to save your dough and opt out of the tremendous 5.5. upgrade. Thats a cool grand per copy for Symphony owners. Maybe new hardware from Avid is on the way. In that case you may want to delay purchase of any DX stuff.
This 64bit non-anouncement is not actionable intelligence. What are they saying?
Maybe this is just a way of saying “wait for us”.
Remember Avid has a lot of experience trailing the pack. 10 bit standard def video, uncompressed HD, Symphony HD, and etc were all delivered after their market contemporaries. My bet is you can add 64bit processing to that list.
Heck it is really common sense. If they can’t deliver a stable 64bit release in 12 months, they are going to look foolish. And it will hold the application back pushing around pixels and in overall speed. We need the memory and threads now. They have do it.
Honestly, Avid should of been first. Or at least a lot sooner. Unless you count DS..which has been 64 bit since 2007.
Spread the word. Nice one. How about some more words to spread?
Seriously. Share some more details Avid and then this can be a credible and useful move.
Chris Magid
RTVFchris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com -
Well. Not sure if it is an issue about affording it. It is really an issue for versatility.
I would like to predominately use the Alexa with Ultra Primes, Master Primes, Superspeeds or other nicely matched sets. These rental lenses would be chosen on a job by job basis, making sure I always put the right set on the right project. Has some financial flexibility too. And some of those jobs may require Optimos or Aluras too.
However I would also like to put the camera on jobs with just a single ENG/EFP zoom lens or a single low end cinema zoom lens. Those would be owned…as we do now with our ENG lenses. It can’t be too expensive or else I can’t bill the Alexa/Zoom package close to what we bill something like a Varicam package.
There aren’t many long zooms anyway…the 250mm of the Alura is about right.
The 150mm of the other lens we may both thinking about is a little too short.
Just trying to figure out a reasonable way to stretch our use of the Alexa into lower budget projects which we now shoot high end video on.
So. It is very much a video like application 1920×1080, pro-res 4:2:2 to SxS cards.
Your thoughts about using still photographic lenses is interesting. Always been a little hesitant to do so. And I was hoping to figure out a solution with a servo. So thought I would ask about the idea of using a relay lens. Others have tried it but haven’t found much info other than that.
Chris Magid
RTVFchris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com -
Completely understand your reluctance. And I think I know the lens of which you speak.
Now what about configuring with a 2/3rd inch high end ENG/EFP video lens?
There are a few adapters to do such things with. But you never really hear too much about them. Can anyone recommend hardware?
Anyone have any comments or opinions on such a configuration. What sort of problems will I encounter?
What I am envisioning is using Alexa in a documentary/reality type workflow much like an old CP-16 news camera.
Only hopefully with prettier results.
With the explosion of 35mm sensors in lower end cameras, time will solve the problem as manufacturers create mid range or low end EFP type zooms.
This is not my main goal with Alexa. But a workflow which would let me use the camera more in lieu of our Varicams and such.
Chris Magid
RTVFchris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com -
Wow. That was my suspicion based on some disappointing experiences with the 3700.
Can you describe your feelings? What parameters, behaviors or image qualities do you think the 2700 does not do as well as the H at?
It is a shame because the H can be very noisy in shadow or muted low luma values. Otherwise it is awesome. Best rig I have ever used.
Was hoping AVC Intra 100 10 bit would help me with some banding and noise issues. We are doing a lot of work on new projects which have some very subtle gradient gray backgrounds. The H, probably due to 8 bit DVC PRO HD has tough time. It happens at other times too. We are having to be a little too careful with lighting.
The H also gets a little clip-ish with highlights and was hoping the expanded published dynamic range of the 2700 and the 14 bit DSPs would help out.
We also were hoping to get into file based workflows.
Suppose we could investigate the P2 docking recorders. Anyone know if the HDSDI out of the H is 10 bit and if the P2 docks can now handle slow motion (48fps) properly?
Says a lot about the H, that I can’t find a replacement camera short of a Sony SRW900 or an Alexa. They are not great fits for the majority of our work.
Cameras like the Sony F3 are not an option because of the 4:2:0 limitation. And I have worked with a lot of F800 XDCAM footage and was extremely underwhelmed at that camera’s performance.
Chris Magid
RTVFchris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com -
I don’t think supporting all those frame rates helps deliver the ability to record slow motion.
The Varicam, at least the tape based variety, records everything as 720p 60. Flags in the data stream tell various devices what to do upon playback. 23.98p being a special case which decks can decode as a true 23.98p output or cross covert to 1080i with pulldown added.
I am not sure these flags exist in the SDI output of the Varicam. If they did the Ki Pro could read those flags to allow the video to be recorded at the frame rate set in the Varicam. If the flags are not in the SDI output then the KiPro could do things to let you record 720p60 as 720p 23.98. But both these cases would require some sort of caching of frames to temporary storage. Not a lot, but a little.
Can you force Ki Pro to do such a thing a now?
Is that why your reply mentioned “the full suite of VFR, not yet” and “”No slow motion capability is provided at this time, but the product does support 720p 59.94 fps”.
We don’t use a whole bunch of wild frame rates. Pretty much 23.98 and 48fps. So if there was a workflow which allowed for some sort of true slow motion, it would be great to know about.
Maybe I am missing something very simple.
Chris Magid
RTVFchris magid
chris@gortvf,com
Renaissance Television & Film
http://www.gortvf.com