Chris Lundy
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I’d have to check and see but I’m pretty sure this occurs on NDF outputs as well. The 720p 23.98 seq. is of course NDF by nature. I could see why adding pulldown and going to a DF tape could yield said results in some places, but it shouldn’t matter at the beginning of the output, before the first minute. If I insert at 00:59:50:00 (where slate starts) and then at 01:00:00:00 the first frame of picture is off by a field, how is DF involved in that? At that point it wouldn’t have crossed a minute mark that skipped any TC numbers. Am I wrong? Under 1 minute DF and NDF are the same.
It seems to me to be related somehow to the the 59.94 (frames per second playback) that then is converted to 1080i 29.97 (frames per second/or 59.94 fields per second) If the Kona 59.94 pulldown out is off by 1 frame that may be translated into 1 field upon conversion to 29.97. Does that make sense? Have you ever seen this, or have you not done this type of conversion?
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Assuming that card does the downconversion, as Jeremy says it does, the capture is simple. I use a Kona 3 and do all the time. You will need to duplicate and modify one of the Kona 525 23.98 capture presets. If you look in the setting for it you will see the Input Digitizer is most likely set to 525 29.97. You will want to change that to 525 23.98. Now 1080p 23.98 signal coming in to the card will be downconverted to 525 23.98. Make sure the Kona Control panel has Primary as 525 23.98 and Secondary as 1080p 23.98 and viola, you’ll see the downconvert. One gotcha I have found with this conversion is that the card captures a frame prior to the In point you set for capture. Doesn’t matter if you futz with capture offsets in Device Control, it won’t help. If timecode accuracy is important for your project you will need to Modify > Timecode of clips after capture by 1 frame (easily down in FCP).
Chris Lundy
PostWorks, NYI have informed AJA of this frame accuracy issue and have not seen any movement on it.
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Sort of glad to hear corroboration, but concerned about the cause and what should be done. I haven’t found 10 bit to cause it at all regardless of rendering. I may be misreading your post, but I still see it when I create a Quicktime of solid black matte and reimport. It seems to only exist on black.
I can’t believe no one has brought this up before.
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Sorry, I’ve never looked at that tutorial. I always black tapes using house black and insert house bars. Sometimes I’ve used the Internal Signal to black as well, but I always do this directly on the deck itself no matter what the format. The deck is set to INT PRESET for this step.
But once you’ve put the black on the tape with whatever timecode preset you require ,then you switch the deck to INT REGEN. Then Edit to Tape and set the In point. Go from there.
-Chris Lundy
PostWorks NY
https://www.pwny.com -
It sounds like you’re not all on the same page. The original post mentions the deck set to EXT REGEN. This will only work if you are feeding the deck timecode via the TC IN connection. This is meant for a deck to deck dub. It doesn’t do anything with the RS-422. RS-422 is for controlling the deck, but you need timecode on the tape already. What you are attempting to do is just play out from your Final Cut timeline and have the deck generate timecode based on your timeline. This doesn’t work (at least not up to 5.1.4) as Final Cut doesn’t pass off the timecode info of the timeline to the Kona card in any way. Your options for outputting are as follows:
1. You black the tape on the deck with some timecode that you will need based on your timeline needs. Then use Edit to Tape and set the IN. You will use Assemble Edit if you have not blacked the tape for the entire duration of your program. If you have blacked the entire tape, use Insert Edit. This is the industry standard way of outputting from any editing system.
2. If you’re trying to do it in a way that’s similar to your original post you could use VTR Xchange or Kona TV. VTR Xchange will pass the timecode of the Quicktime out the SDI output of the Kona card and if your deck is able to accept SLTC or SVITC you would be able to simply hit play on the computer and record on the deck. No 422 control involved. The VTR Xchange appliation does do this if you load up a Quicktime (reference or self contained) and turn on the timecode in the Kona Control Panel . You would not set a deck to EXT REGEN to accomplish this, but instead to SLTC or SVITC (which is Serial, meaning SDI).
Hope this helps.
Chris Lundy
PostWorks, NY
https://www.pwny.com -
This drove us nuts too until we found a mention buried in the manual.
In the deck System Menu, go to SETUP MENU > OPERATIONAL FUNCTION >AUTO EE SELECT – now make sure all 4 are set to EE not PB. This makes sure the deck wakes up when the firewire signal from the computer starts.Chris Lundy
PostWorks New York
http://www.pwny.com -
Put your 23.98 QT into a matching sequence – DVCPro HD 720p 23.98. Set the Final Cut video playback to 720p 59.94 8-bit. The card will now add the necessary pulldown to your 23.98 material. Lastly, in the Kona control panel, right-click the SDI 1 output and choose 525 29.97 so the card downconverts your 720p 59.94 signal. All done.
Good luck.
Chris Lundy
PostWorks New York
https://www.pwny.com -
Fair enough. But if that’s the case it should be clearly stated in the manuals as it is for other products that process video, such as the Teranex. And if it’s going to slow my video down it should go ahead and delay the audio for me too so I don’t have to workaround it. Little things like that go a long way. The card does some great things, many of which the Avid Adrenaline BOB won’t do, but they need to make it clear what you need to do to get certain things to work as expected. I work at a facility where we get so many different combinations of things thrown at us so maybe I’m seeing the card in more varied scenarios.
If anybody has any other thoughts on this or has seen these processing delays I would appreciate your thoughts.
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In addition to the 4 channel or 8 channel situation for the tape itself, make sure the Audio In settings on the deck match what type of audio your card is outputting. So, is your card sending AES or SDI audio? Make sure the Audio In settings within the PCM settings on the D5 deck are set to “Digital” for all the channels and then either “Serial” or “AES” for the type of “Digital”. There are a lot of settings on this deck and only working at a facility with engineers and tape ops has gotten me thru figuring a 1/4 of it.
-Chris Lundy
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Gary,
I gave this a shot via Kona TV and VTR Xchange. VTR Xchange doesn’t let you play the files out. DVCPro HD clips at 23.98 or 59.94 load up with the note “Incompatible format for recording”. It doesn’t seem possible to use said clips in VTR Xchange because there are no playback output setting as exists in FCP or Kona TV. Am I missing something?I can, however, load the clips in Kona TV. But I’m not sure the TC looks right. The 23.98 clip has timecode that jumps several frame numbers at a time. I assume it may be okay once it hits the tape but who knows? The 59.94 clip has slightly different timecode than when I look at the same clip inside of FCP. There must be issues with the TC from the P2 counting 60 frames and not 30, even though when layed to tape it will count 30. How would a tape output from Kona TV ever refer back to the 60 TC on the P2 clip?
Lastly, does the QT Timecode box need to be checked in the Kona Control Panel for this HD-SDI embedded TC to work?
Thanks.
chris lundy