Chris Jacek
Forum Replies Created
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And what if it really ISN’T suitable to professionals? That seems to be a possibility that FCPX lovers fail to recognize. If people criticize something new, why is it always assumed that they “are not open minded to change”? The new thing could just simply suck.
I’m not necessarily saying this is the case with FCPX as it stands now. But when it came out, it was not usable to me, and to many others. As is the case with the Mac Pro, many did not, and do not, have the luxury to wait and hope for the best.
Though I have not spent much time lately with FCPX, because I had to alter my media program, it seems to be catching up to its original promise, and maybe even becoming a true “professional tool.” But you know what? The Ampex Ace was also a professional tool. But it was bassackwards and never fully embraced by the post-production community. There was a segment of editors who swore by it, but that didn’t make it a good product.
Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee -
I understand how it works, and everything you mention sounds great. Except for the price. The fact that there is no longer an upfront cost means little to us, because we have already paid the upfront costs of the perpetual license. We retain our license when the student leaves, and can then re-assign it to another of our students when they join the program. Since the computers are portable, they ARE using them at home, even though they actually belong to the college until the day they graduate or leave the school otherwise. All this, we are already receiving, but for only $6.25 a month. I know it is only software, but that is truly only what we need, and more importantly, what we can afford. Are you suggesting that the extras you mention are worth over $33 per month? They certainly are not worth that to us.
I think the Cloud is a great idea, but your pricing structure is exploitative to educators as compared to your previous licensing system. And frankly, we will NEVER be able to afford it, which leaves us with 2 choices: Keep using our old stuff, or look elsewhere. Adobe used to be a company that valued its educational users by aggressively discounting their products 75-80% over the commercial prices. That’s why we chose Adobe in the first place. This will also be the reason we STOP using Adobe products if this new policy is not improved. To keep with your traditional aggressive educational pricing, you should be offering the Creative Cloud for about $10-12 per month.
If this new pricing structure is such a great deal, then why kill the old system so quickly? If it is such a great deal, people would certainly flock to the new system and abandon the one we’ve been using. But Adobe’s decision to quickly kill the old licensing system, shows that they know they are screwing over their educational customers. I noticed that Adobe still offers “Upgrade Plan” for CLP licensees on the commercial side, but not education.
I think it’s pretty obvious that Adobe no longer wants to court education with the aggressive discounts that they used to. How long do you think that educational institutions are going to support Adobe when you jack up the prices so much so fast?
Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee -
[Craig Alan] “Software and religion are cut from the same cloth. They are both tools to remake reality in your own image.
“Nice. Can I steal that?
Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee -
Admittedly, because of timing, they got the worst possible incarnation of FCPX, circa Sept 2011. Unfortunately, the decision about what to do for 2012 had to come before FCPX matured to its current state. But that is also the unfortunate aspect of releasing something that isn’t quite ready, and forcing people to make a decision.
Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee -
[Craig Seeman] “[Chris Jacek] “I’m going to have to call “passive aggressive” on you Craig,”
Yep, I was very deliberate too. Actually aggressive aggressive IMHO.
[Chris Jacek] “I personally think that FCPX is still a highly flawed editing tool.”
I rest my case on that one. Not that a personal opinion is wrong but that’s not the person to teach the tool or even be open minded on student preference. “
Okay, then let me clarify. I thought I’d meant that you were being myopic and arrogant. What I really mean is that you’re being a flat-out asshole. How dare you question my teaching methods, and choices for what my department, and my students have to pay for. What the hell do you know about my teaching? I’m sorry Craig, but I’m not closed minded. I’ve used them all, and have made my decisions. So have my students.
Last year my students learned four editing platforms in about 6 months time, including your precious FCPX. Getting them to learn FCP7, Premiere, Avid, and FCPX was not the hard part. They absorbed all of it like a sponge. These kids are way more intelligent than you give them credit for. And way more savvy to BS than your and me combined. They made their choice about what THEY consider to be useful and professional. Despite whatever biases I bring to the table, they are capable of making their own decisions.
Not a one of them who spent the same exact price for their entry-level Macbook Pro is happy when compared to their classmates who got a high-end PC laptop. Their render times in After Effects are more than twice as long, often longer. This may be because their RAM is half, and their storage less than a quarter of the students with the same priced PC setup, which has a dedicated graphics card and Blu-Ray burner too. They understand workflow. They understand cost/benefit. They don’t care what is the easiest program to re-arrange clips on. Easy is for day one. Doing good work is for days 2-n. They want the platform and program that does the best trim editing, integrates the best with After Effects, renders the fastest, and crashes the least. They aren’t looking for the EASIEST tool, they are looking for the BEST tool. And because my opinion of what the BEST tool is does not agree with yours, you’re going to tell me that I’m not the person for the job. And who is the person for the job, Craig? You? If you’re as much of a prick in front of young adults as you are in this message, I don’t think you’d be a very good teacher.
We’ve had our run-ins before, Craig, and sometimes it’s really fun. But this time really pissed me off (obviously). I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on this particular exchange, and assume that the cruelty and rudeness contained within is not really who you are. I hope you’ll do the same with my off-color response.
CJ
Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee -
[Craig Seeman] “But he did say it was a “small department.”
And this is a teacher who apparently isn’t willing to teach it.
Who also finds Adobe expensive.
Wait ’till the see Avid pricing once they go from education to “adult” prices. Priced “right” for eduction. The company that loves expensive upgrades.
I hope they like Lightworks.”I’m going to have to call “passive aggressive” on you Craig, perhaps with a bit of arrogant myopia on the side. The implication of your post is that I am so sort of small town simpleton locked away in my little ivory tower with no idea how the real world works.
Let’s look at why I am “not willing to teach it.” And let’s remove the fact that I, like many on this board, have been working in post since the days of CMX and the Ampex Ace, and I personally think that FCPX is still a highly flawed editing tool. But let’s look at some of my “real world” problems.
I’m trying to run a program that gives me a whopping $3000 annual budget for equipment, and I had to fight for 2 years to get that raised from its original $1000. Also, like most people who work for an organization that does things other than video production, I have to deal with blank stares from accounting, and flat-out aggression from IT, at the mere mention of a Mac-based computer purchase program. I’m sure many of you in the “real world” have been there too.
My task is to provide an education, and to somehow get the necessary tools within our always constrained budget. After doing all the heavy lifting to sell my bean counters on the idea of forcing our students to buy a laptop and software, and front them the financing to do so, Adobe suddenly hits us with a 600% increase on our existing costs for their software. These are costs that we budgeted three years into the future, based on Adobe’s own philosophy that our maintenance contract would “provide us with predictable budgeting.” Somebody tell me what’s predictable about canceling said program, and offering no other solution than the before-mentioned 600% price increase for their Creative Cloud. That may not seem expensive by 1990s-era giant post-house standards, but any time a vendor sextuples their price without warning, I think it’s fair to call that expensive.
So before you cast me as naive, try once to look at this from a perspective other than myopic post-production-professional. Your comment: “Wait ’till the see Avid pricing once they go from education to “adult” prices” makes a pretty baffling assumption. In what scenario do you think that the cost of commercial licenses will be relevant to fresh-out-of-college graduates? Do you think their entry-level jobs will smack them in the face with the “harsh reality” of “real world” pricing? They are most likely going to get paid to edit on whatever system their employer thinks is best, and more than likely be asked to wear a bunch of other hats. Purchasing decisions and budgeting are likely years away. So please save your snarky “I hope they like Lightworks” comments. They offend the sensibilities of us bumpkins who don’t live in the “real world.”
Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee -
I don’t argue the “eureka moment” premise, for someone who is fully engrained in post and likes to play with toys. But even as one of those people, I’m unlikely to pay the Mac tax just on the chance of that eureka moment happening for me. I got my first Windows machine in 20 years last summer, and can honestly say that the transition hasn’t been bad at all. As a loyal Mac apologist for those 20 years, I always felt that the extra money you paid for a Mac was worth it. I cannot say that I believe that any more.
Lion and Mountain Lions are flawed in my opinion. Over the past year, all of the annoyances that I used to have with Windows machines are not part of the Mac experiences, and surprisingly, many of the little “wow, that’s cool” moments are happening for me on Windows (W7, I haven’t really used 8 much).
Even if the battle was a draw on the OS side of things, I’m not going to pay the heavy premium to buy a Mac whose operating system is now clearly geared toward things that Apple things are important, rather than things that I think are important. Once upon a time, Apple could do both at the same time. Now, they are only interested in making you do things the way THEY think you should do things. To me that is very Windows ’98 thinking.
With no plans to buy any new Apple hardware in the foreseeable future, I suspect that the eureka moment will probably pass me by while I play with the new GoPro I bought with the money I saved by purchasing a beefy Windows laptop (which incidentally handles my GoPro footage much more easily in After Effects than a Mac does).
Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee -
And yes, we can still buy the perpetual licenses at a discount, but we were only able to make the budget work with the maintenance license. With no upgrade pricing, and no maintenance, even at the low price point of $400 for a Production Premium seat, I would still be paying for the equivalent of 6 years of maintenance licensing (which is about $75 per year, per seat) each time they updated the software, just to stay current. They are obviously going to update more frequently than every 6 years (at least I sure hope they will), so I am definitely still looking at a significant price increase to stay current.
Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee -
—–I’m not sure about your information (or whether this impacts meaningfully on your budget) but I easily find “Student and Teacher Edition” postings for Creative Cloud at 19.99 / month.—-
This is only a promotional price, good for one year. I must budget for 3 years. But even at $20 a month, my costs have more than tripled. There’s no way I can get a 300% increase approved.
Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee -
Actually, we still get the upgrades for FCPX, and my students quite vehemently hate it. Those who have the MAcs (last year’s computer laptop requirement) have learned FCP7, Avid, Premiere, and FCPX. Most prefer Avid or Premiere. Nobody prefers FCPX. I may have tainted their attitude.
Plus this year’s laptop purchase participants are getting 17″ i7 laptops with dual 750GB hard drives, dedicated nVidia card, and a Blu-Ray burner for the same price as entry level 13″ Macbook Pros from a year ago.
I haven’t tried Lightworks yet, but I am intrigued. Do you guys really think it’s ready for prime time?
Professor, Producer, Editor
and former Apple Employee