Bruce Watson
Forum Replies Created
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[ryan elder] “Cause making the boom higher, is going to be too far away and the actors sound more far away on the sound track than they do in the video footage as a result.”
Exactly. If the DP is going to run things, this is what you get. This is why there is a director; because the director knows (should know anyway) that sound is at least as important as video, and that it takes both to make the picture work. Bad dialog sound is the quickest way I know to empty a theater.
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[ryan elder] “And yes I am also the boom operator as well as the director.
When I say that the reverb is worse in the wider shots, what I mean is, is that in the wider shots, the boom mic is further away cause there is more head room in wider shots, compared to close ups.”
Yep. That’s what I mean by the mic being out of position. In a wide shot with lots of visual headroom in the frame, booming becomes untenable because it forces the mic too far away from talent’s mouth. Unless you’re willing to do what Ty suggests and rotoscope the boom (and the boom op if needed) out of the scene in post. ????
Else, you’re left with lavs (and really, use only omni lavs — unless you’re really going to work with and train your talent how to use them, directional lavs will make audible every head turn and chin tilt, and thus have the potential to put you through “post hell”). If even lavs fail you, then it’s ADR time. I’ve read that ADR is not so bad with the latest release of DaVinci Resolve. The Fairlight Audio suite seems to be sufficiently evolved to be on par with most other DAWs, it’s fully integrated with Resolve now, and it’s got a reasonable set of ADR tools. So they say — I don’t have a computer with enough CPU/GPU to run Resolve 15 yet so I lack hands-on experience with Resolve 15. But the price is hard to beat — free.
But really, lavs and some work with a parametric equalizer in post (to better match boom mic footage from other scenes) have worked reasonably well well for me in the past; it might work reasonably well for you too. Because — signal-to-noise ratio. A lav right square on the sternum is usually pretty good at getting an optimal signal-to-noise ratio capture. But you have to mount it well to avoid clothing rustle and microphonics from rubbing on the mic cable.
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[ryan elder] “I had to get an emergency location replacement for my next scene shoot, and the new location looks not bad overall for the camera, but the sound has a lot of reverb in it.
With sound blankets, I am only able to get results if the camera is close to the actor, but for the wide master shot takes, there is going to be reverb and I can just tell.”
Recording sound is all about signal-to-noise ratio. And this is controlled largely by mic choice and placement. One can record excellent dialog in an old stone church with a t60 time of 6+ seconds (this is likely way more reverb than you are talking about). But you can’t do that if your mic is out of position.
When you say “…I am only able to get results if the camera is close to the actor, but for the wide master shot takes, there is going to be reverb…” it makes me think your mic has some relationship with the camera (OK, it sounds like a camera mounted mic). The optimum placement for a mic is hardly ever near a camera. It’s almost always near the person being recorded.
Bottom line here is if you’re getting too much “reverb” (and other noise) in your dialog recording, get your mic closer to the mouth of the talent (the signal) you are trying to record. The classical way is to use a human boom operator to boom the mic above, in front of, and pointed at the talent’s mouth. If you can’t do that, consider mounting a lavalier on your talent (learn how to do a proper mount and save yourself a lot of pain in post). Either method (booming or lavaliers), if done well, can substantially reduce the amount of reverb you pick up while recording dialog.
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[ryan elder] “And I have been for the last few years”
Wow. You’ve got way more patience than I do. Do yourself a solid and buy a good boompole. You’ll almost immediately be cursing those years with a painters pole, and the people who advised you so poorly.
While you’re at it, buy the appropriate Rycote lyre shock mount for your mic. Together with a proper boom pole, you’ll marvel at how much better you’ve become at booming almost overnight. 😉
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[Ty Ford] “I forgot I wrote that!”
But I didn’t. More people read what you write than you can imagine. You do good work Ty.
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[Adrian Jans] “I am seeking advice on what equipment I can update to improve the audio quality of people that call in to be interviewed for our Podcast.”
Our own Ty Ford posted about this on his blog way back in 2014. Still relevant though.
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[ryan elder] “They don’t just say let’s shoot the actors in front of a green screen, so we have more options in post. They actually make the decision to kill two birds with one stone while shooting, so I thought if DPs are comfortable doing that, why aren’t audio professionals?
But don’t you find it more work in post to have to do all that extra mixing rather than making the decisions while recording it in the actual environments? I just feel that if DPs can make that decision and live with it, without all these extra options in post, why can’t audio professionals?”
Because the “actual environments” are hardly ever what the sound designer wants. Because the sound of the actual environments hardly ever supports the visuals.
For example, say you shoot on an actual movie set. The set is a room, but two sides and half the roof are off for camera, dialog sound boom, and light access. The building this movie set is in is cavernous. Say it’s half the size of a football field. But the video shot in it depicts a small hotel room.
If you record anything other than dialog here (and the dialog is recorded as dry as possible), you get first reflections that are far longer than the small room shown in the video would generate. So you get “big room sound” when looking at a “small room” on the screen. Which doesn’t work. It doesn’t support the visual. In fact, it distracts from the visual. And it can’t reasonably be fixed in post, even with all the nice new de-reverb plug-ins you can dig up.
So movie sound people try to record everything “dry”. The sound designer takes all the dialog, Foley, sound effects, etc. and stacks them (sometimes hundreds of layers of different sounds) up for the shot. He/she spends time getting the levels right for each layer, works to get each individual sound positioned just right compared to all the other sounds (that hinge squeak has to lag the door knob turning sound by just the right amount to “sell it”). Usually each sound is EQed individually to make them blend as they should. Then the sound designer can add just the right kind and amount of reverb to make the entire clip’s sound package support what is seen on the screen. In the case above, that’s a “small room” reverb to make it match the “small room” seen on the screen.
I’m just sayin’ that sound is way different than video. DPs work way differently than sound pros. Different jobs require different work flows. This should not surprise you.
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[Chris Newberry] “…when using an XLR cable with my boom mic etc if it slightly moves or is accidentally knocked then I hear that on the final recording (through the cable, not through the mic).”
OK, I’ve got to ask: what makes you think the problem is the XLR cable? In particular, what do you mean when you say: “through the cable, not through the mic”? Do you mean that if you disconnect the mic and thump the cable, you record a sound? If so, can you post the sound so that we might hear it? And even if not, can you post a sound sample somewhere so we can hear it?
And just so we’ll know, what mic, what mic mount, and where is it mounted (boom pole, c-stand, camera top, etc.)? Are you recording directly into the camera (which camera?) or into a dedicated sound recorder (which recorder?)?
To answer your question: [Chris Newberry] “Is there a particular type of XLR cable that would protect against this?”
Since I don’t know what “this” is, it’s difficult to say. What I can tell you is that I’ve been using fairly cheap AT8314 cables for well over a decade now and never heard a any kind of sound that I could attribute to the cables. Many of these cables I actually bought used, so who knows how old they are? Yet they still over-and-under just fine, lay flat on the floor when I need them too, and I don’t get any kind of cable noise or connector noise at all. Maybe I just got lucky. Who knows?
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[Alan Balch] “I think that LENRD bass traps along with studio foam wedge might work in at least dampening the echos in the room. My reason for this line of thought is my studio will be used only for recording interviews on camera, so there won’t be any music mixing or live performances. From what I read about bass traps they are the first step in addressing resonant frequencies. Furthermore, because the room has no parculier angels to it such as vaulted ceilings or odd shaped walls I think these bass traps will help.”
If you’re only recording spoken voice in sit-down interviews, you probably don’t need bass traps. If your speaker isn’t exciting any peaks or nulls in the room there’s nothing for the bass trap to, well, trap.
Since the room isn’t yours, but the room treatments will be yours, I’d lean toward absorption panels and diffusers that you can either hang on the walls or use wheeled stands that let you push them into position when you need them and store them somewhere when you don’t.
Since it’s a fairly small room, I’d probably start out with more absorption panels. Why? If you take out too much of the sound of the room (make the room too dead) you can recover by adding some reverb in post. If you have too much room sound it’s much more of a problem in post. Better to err in the direction of too dead than too live IMHO.
Then I’d probably arrange interviews out toward the center of the room (that is, off the walls — so that your lights don’t leave visible shadows in the frame, and so that you lengthen the time before those audio first reflections hit the mics). Then, at least for the first interview, I’d use dual mics — a lavalier (omni, not directional) placed as close to the middle of the sternum as I could get (don’t go too high or you’ll get in the chin shadow area), and a hypercardioid boomed (static on a boom pole and c-stand usually works just fine for static sit-down interviews) above and in front, just out of the frame and looking down at the mouth at about a 45 degree angle, about 45-60cm away from the mouth in total. Listen to them both, decide which one works better for your needs, and use that method for the rest of your interviews.
Finally, monitor your audio on headphones the entire time. Every second. I’m not kidding. Hear the problems in real time, fix them right there and then, minimize any post work you can. You’ll get better sound, for less work, with fewer surprises. Everyone will be happy.
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[Alan Balch] “Any ideas how much sound proofing foam I would need in order to adequately outfit a video studio? Dimensions of the room are 10′ wide 20′ long 10′ high.”
First, there’s a distinct difference between sound proofing (that is, keeping sound from the outside getting in, and sound from the inside getting out), and sound treatments (to improve the quality of sound inside the room, bass traps, diffusers, absorbers, etc.). Neither of these things involve just throwing some sort of “sound proofing foam” at it, in some sort of quantity, and you’re done. Both are a lot more work than that.
So first thing, decide what you’re trying to do (sound proofing or sound treatments). Then decide how much needs to be done, and what your budget is. If it’s not your “video studio” then find out what you’re actually allowed to do to it. Hint: sound proofing generally involves taking the room back down to the studs and starting over, or building a new room inside the old one (not touching the old walls, ceiling, and floating the new floor off the old one.) Sound treatment typically means positioning bass traps, diffusers, and absorbers in strategic locations to accomplish your goals, whatever they may be.
A good place to start doing some research into sound treatments might be:
https://www.asc-studio-acoustics.com/products/
There are of course a number of other vendors. But this should give you a start; once you learn the jargon searching is usually much more fruitful.
Finally, if you have any input into the room dimensions, change them. 10x20x10 feet is going to be a fairly nasty sounding small room full of room modes. Go for something taller (room for a lighting grid) and with none of the dimensions being equal to each other, or simple multiples of each other. There are books written on studio design that explain everything from dimensions to HVAC, electrical, plumbing, lighting, control rooms, and of course sound proofing and sound treatments. All the “hows” and “whys”.