[Brian Paterson]

Hi Daniel,
Thanks for your advice. It’s all getting a bit confusing now so let me explain where i am with this.
The original advice from a “cow ” member and I think from Ken Stone too was to choose the MPEG2 preset in adobe media encoder to encode my files from FCP. ( Ken stone said he had great trouble with h.264 ) Upon further reading and research it seemed that the quality was going to be better using MPEG4 rather than MPEG2. When I mentioned this in a posting I got a reply saying MPEG4 is H.264 The quicktime wrapped version is just called H264. Blu Ray can be either H264 or mpeg2.
Raphael Amador posted saying :- “Probably Ken Stone’s article was written some time ago.
I remember that 2 or three years ago (search this forum) there were problems when trying to use h264 with Encore, so people had to stick with the MPEG-2. things have changed and you shouldn’t have problem using H264 with the software that you have mentioned.”
So I used Adobe Media Encoder and chose the h.264 preset. I have just checked the audio now after reading your post and it was set to PCM audio which you say not to use The only other alternative it seems to have is Dolby digital. Should I use that? What is wrong with PCM audio ?
After much trial and error with Encore, researching this and that way to do things and finding all sorts of other problems I finally got my first page and my second page (with menus) constructed and as a test made a dvd disc image ( not a blu ray disc image, that will come next ) To get everything down to a reasonable test size I cropped the timeline down to a 50 minute movie which when I hit GO! started transcoding. This was at 1:45 a.m. this morning. I eventually went to bed at 4a.m. and it was about half way through transcoding. I don’t know how long it was in the end because I was asleep but when I awoke today it had completed everything successfully. The finished disc image is 3.32 Gig. and at a guess took four and a half hours to transcode. I tested it by putting the disc image into Toast and used the DVD player in my Mac to test the menus all of which seemed to work. I now have to make the full Blu Ray version and the file size is over Eighteen Gigabytes with a one hour and fifty minutes long timeline. Can you tell me which part of this workflow you would consider to be sub optimal ( no good ) and how to improve it. Is H.264 called MPG4 like Michael Gissing said in his post? Which is right and which is wrong ( I notice there are both in the AME presets list ) and if you say to use H.264 ( which I did ) then why all the transcoding last night. Is there always going to be a final transcoding in Encore no matter how it is set up it is set up ?
Any more help and advice would be most welcome.
Many Thanks – BRIAN

brian paterson

[Brian Paterson]

Hi Nelson,
I output an XDCAM EX reference file from FCP and from that made an MPG4 file using Adobe Media Encoder to take into Encore and the size of this together with the wav sound file is 18.8 gig when in Encore. The length of the video is approx. 1 hour and fifty minutes.
I have just remade the encore file with these two assets and put together two pages. The first has two menus entitled- “Play” (which is the full video) and “Chapters” which opens the second page. On that page is a menu of six chapters. Yesterday when I made these two pages using the reference file ( accidently ) which I shouldn’t have done then everything opened up and played fine when tested. This time I used the correct MPG4 files which apart from taking 27 minutes to open has created another problem. Now when I go to the second page none of the individual chapters play in the preview. I went to ‘menu’, ‘check project’ and hit ‘start’ and it says there are no problems. Any suggestions as to why ? Only the full video on the first page plays which I selected as “first play”
It’s so annoying especially as I know it was working with a reference file yesterday.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Thanks
BRIAN.

brian paterson

[Brian Paterson]

Thanks for your input and advice Nelson.
Unfortunately I need the menus as it is a wedding and the client wants chapters. The good news is after looking at the many and varied ways of doing this I ignored all the tutorials and figured it out myself logically and according to the test check everything was good to go. The bad news is that when trying to burn the project it said the file had been corrupted. I think it was because I accidently brought a reference file into the timeline ( 1.5gb ) which is why it was all going so well and working so slickly. Now for the really bad news.
When I brought in the correct file ( the full length MPEG4 file ) at 16.5gb it took about twenty minute to import. But the really really bad news is that after I did some work and closed it down for the night ( as it was late ) it took 27 minutes this morning to re-open the file. I can’t really believe Adobe would build an authoring programme meant for making blu ray discs which hold 25 or 50 gigabytes which has to load the whole of an extremely large file every time it has to be worked on. I would have thought it might have referenced the file for the work to be done before committing it to the finished build. It certainly does not seem to be the case if it takes 27 minutes just to open a job. – Is this normal or do I have a problem somewhere. This is the second project I have made using the same full length MPEG4 file because I assumed I had not done it correctly the first time due to it not opening after fifteen minutes. This time I just left it and as I say it did open ( eventually ) after 27 minutes. Trying to move up and down the timeline to find places to put markers was painful too. In the end I had to re-open FCP then note in the timecode window where the markers should be then go back into Encore and type in the time rather than try and scrub through to find the correct places. Come on Adobe – what is this? Some of us have lives to lead. At this rate i’ll be an old man before I get the job finished.

brian paterson

[Brian Paterson]

Hi Chris, Thanks for the reply.
I am just investigating which BD discs I should get so don’t actually have any media to try out in toast or Encore as yet. I am also unsure as yet what size files I might end up with ( and therefore what size discs to get ) so am going through the process of making the initial files at present to see.
I made a four minute test last week which seemed O.K. then yesterday made the full 2hr MPG 4 file which took over eight hours to convert in Adobe Media Encoder. It is 18 .5 gigabyte and I have just tried to bring it into Encore Cs5. The wheels spin around seemingly forever and I force quit it a couple of times thinking there might be a problem. I have now read somewhere it might take a while but have no idea how long. ( I now assume it’s bringing in the whole file and not just a reference of it. ) Could this take another eight hours or could it be a lot shorter.? Will the output file be the same size as the input file ? It all a mystery right now so don’t know whether I should sit here and wait or go in the garden and cut logs for the rest of the day. After that I don’t know what size file I will end up with or how long I should expect it to take to output a disk image. It’s all quite worrying and painful not knowing what to expect or whether I am doing it right or wrong or whether after all that it might not work. I have searched everywhere for these answers but had no luck.
Regards burning several copies out of encore I am quite happy to do that if it is as quick as doing it with toast but what happens when I shut everything down and go back in the future to make another copy. Will it just as easily ( and quickly) burn another copy. Will I have to make a disk image to use with encore to do this or just use the normal output files.
So many questions so few answers.
Any help is most welcome. Many Thanks – BRIAN.

brian paterson

[Brian Paterson]

Hello.

I won’t go into all the complications and explanations of my recent tests for creating blue ray discs with menus and chapters etc. Suffice to say I am progressing fairly well albeit slowly and am getting close to the final stages of actually burning the material. My question here is a simple one. If I create a Blu Ray Disc Image from ENCORE can I burn multiple copies in Toast 9 by dragging the Disc Image to “copy disc”. –
This process has always worked well for me when making DVDs. Is it exactly the same with Blu Ray or will I need the blu ray plug in. I thought the plug in was for writing AVCHD to ordinary DVDs whereas I intend to burn a blu ray Disc Image to a blu ray disc using an external blu ray burner. So can I do that via the toast ( copy / image file, menu ) without having to use a plug in.
I cannot find a yes or no answer to this anywhere.
I though by using a disc image I would be able to avoid all the encoding that would have to be done each and every time to make six copies ( The video is two hours long )
Any advice much appreciated before I start making coasters out of expensive discs.

Thanks.

brian paterson

[Brian Paterson]

Hi Rafael,
Research on the internet is a bit like ying and yang it seems with every written experience having a polar opposite so I guess in the end making one’s own tests are the final proof. However with machines designed by humans one has to interact with them in order to find out how they are built and what they do. One cannot learn in a vacum. Sitting in a room alone with a computer and the internet I admit is not an ideal way to learn new programmes as it can take weeks to take those first few steps and get up to running speed but I see no alternative other than paying huge amounts of money to be taught by a real person ( which I can’t afford). Therefore one can only take on trust what others with experience have to say on the internet. I have now made my own first two tests and found that what you say seems to be correct ( at least for me ) in that the files I made from AME did not need transcoding in Encore. Maybe Ken Stone made his initial files in another way ( I can’t remember now ) The permutations in doing tests are endless which is why such forums as the Cow are such a great help. I often wish the manufactures of computer programmes would do a better job with their manuals. Maybe they should make two. The one they always make and then a step by step book outlining how to make ( in this case) that first Blu ray disc for e.g. I don’t need to know how and engine works to drive my car and in the first instance I don’t need to know all about the technicalities of codecs or why and what things are for etc I just want to know which buttons to press to make it happen. After that (if I am interested ) then I can start to look into refining the process or making myself more knowledgeable. Why is this concept so difficult for manufacturers to take on board. I have spent days reading up on the problems others have had with this process to the point where I am frightened to touch anything in case it is the wrong thing to do. And if it is what will the eventual outcome be. If it was a five minute video I wouldn’t mind but when it is two hours long and from what I read will take forever to make then I need to be sure it’s not all going to go tits up in the end result or be sent back by the client because it won’t play properly or is rubbish quality. O.k Enough!!! – sorry for the rant and I do appreciate all the advice from everyone. – I am slowly getting there and learning lots but as this is the first client request for Blu ray in two years my fear is that all I am learning will be forgotten if I don’t get another Blu Ray request for another two years. – Hey Ho such is life – Thank again BRIAN.

brian paterson

[Brian Paterson]

Thanks Steve,
Great tip. – Even though I fixed the problem ( my way ) yesterday I discovered this morning that the icons once again were missing so tried what you said and it has worked perfectly so far even after a re-start to check. I thought the stuff in the cache folder might have regenerated itself but it has remained empty. Not sure how cahe folder work but all seems good. Many Thanks. BRIAN.

brian paterson

[Brian Paterson]

Hi Joe, further to my problem re missing icons I have been working at it for some hours now and eventually restored them. In frustration what I did was drag the folder containing the files that were missing to the trash and then took them back out of the trash & back into the external hard drive where they re-copied themselves back. After removing them to the trash the appropriate sections of the timeline where the clips were turned red saying the media was offline. After they re-copied themselves back to the drive I went to “reconnect media” and this time the timeline above the clips went from red to orange and the clip icons appeared. Then I rendered as usual and bob’s your Uncle. So the trick was to take them completely offline by moving them somewhere else temporarily ( or even permanently like another drive) and then re-connecting them from scratch. So I solved the problem and hopefully it will work for others who have experienced this strange happening.
With KInd regards
BRIAN.

brian paterson

[Brian Paterson]

Hi Joe, Many thanks. Can I assume that there is no underlying problems when this happens. I am on my first quest to produce a Blu Ray disc and was worried I might do all of the work and then find dropouts or something where the missing icons are. As long as the missing bits are not a sign of an underlying serious problem then I guess I can live with it.
Many Thanks again. Regards BRIAN.

brian paterson

[Brian Paterson]

Thanks Chris,
It’s good to have some straight to the point basic uncomplicated advice on this subject. I will try it right now for my first run.
The complications can always come later, such as building menus etc but this sounds like good basic stuff to get me started.

Many Thanks.
BRIAN.

brian paterson