[Adam Claude jones]

[Matt Lyon]“This is true, but typically you would not send the full clip to the VFX artist. So let say you have a five minute clip, and you are only using from 00:00-00:30 and 02:30-03:00. You would only send the two, thirty second chunks to the VFX team (maybe with 12 frame handles). Otherwise, they are comping and rendering 4 minutes of unused footage, which is expensive and a waste of time.”

Yeah, you are very right here. Could I just create a sublcip or something then?
Also, there are performance (dialog) in these green shots and most likely the whole scene won’t use the same take. It’s starting to get messy.
Would subclips with unique names work? Or what other option is there?
Also, when sending the DPX counterparts to VFX, I would either have to tell them what frames I need (by notes) or go through the trouble of separating those frames and sending only them. Wish I could automate that somehow. Actually, I wish I was back editing video. 🙂
Much simpler.

[Matt Lyon]“So in this example, you’ve sent two clips to get VFX treatment. When they come back to the edit suite, at least one of them will have a different name, and both will have timecode that starts at 00:00:00:00 (unless you embed TC into the DPX files to match your source clips, which you should be able to do — provided your tools support this).”

Well, the timecode would be the problem. The DPX have no real timecode. Just duration. So starting at 00:00:00:00 is the only mark. Meaning VFX would have to comp full takes for timecode to match or clips will have to be split (subclips) so they are perfect matches and can be automatically replaced by FCP once I re-connect the media. 🙁
Hassle, hassle. Where is mini-DV? 🙂

Thanks again Matt.

[Adam Claude jones]

Hi Matt, yeah, the majority of it is green.

[Matt Lyon] “One potential gotcha: if you have split up a clip into multiple smaller pieces, that are placed in non-consecutive parts of your finished timeline, how are you going to deal with the fact that they will all have the same name? “

Well, when you split a clip and use different parts of it in the timeline the source points to the same clip anyway right? It’s just know what parts of it you are using where in the timeline because of what you did on the timeline, no? It would be the same. Let’s say I use the start till 00:30 and then the end from 02:30. Both point to the same clip and just use different parts of the clip based on how I have it on the timeline. The same would work with the VFX shots which would be exactly the same length and name as the low-rez clips. Or did I misunderstand what you meant?

[Matt Lyon]”For your system to work reliably, all the plates you send to VFX need unique names.”

They will have the same names as the original low-rez clips.

[Matt Lyon]” What will be a problem is if the timecode doesn’t line up.”

Aha! Yes. This may indeed be a problem since once I convert the DPX to Prores it will give it a timcode, where the DPX has not time code, just duration. Hmmm.

[Matt Lyon]”But that being said, if you are doing a long format show that is mostly DPX files, are you sure you can’t drop $600 for GlueTools? It sounds like you are trying to jump through a lot of hoops when the right tool already exists for your job. (At least in theory — I haven’t used GlueTools myself).”

Well, the problem is not just Gluetools. It’s that to have an enjoyable experience editing DPX I would have to have a super machine, a super RAID etc. It would mean invest on Gluetools, a new Mac Pro or upgrade mine and a super RAID. As you opened my eyes, there’s no reason to worry about editing in full quality. I think this is the main problem rather than just buying Gluetools. Prores will be a much faster edit.

[Matt Lyon]”As for hardware — you’ll need a disk array that can handle 10 Bit Uncompressed data rates (with a healthy amount of overhead). You should be able to Google all that info. You’ll also need a 10 bit capable video I/O device and a good broadcast monitor.”

I already have a 10bit I/O card (Blackmagic). I will research about the RAID.
But as I was speaking to another FCP editor, he said that once the VFX shots are back, in a perfect world my edit should be locked/finished. So it’s just a matter of rendering a quick low rez version of the whole movie to watch and approve and then just render the final version out. So technically I could do without a RAID which I would only need if I wanted to playback my timeline with the 10bit uncompressed. Of course it would be limiting though.

Thanks again Matt. It has been very productive to be able to count with your expertise.

[Adam Claude jones]

Also, what type of hardware set up would I need to work with the uncompressed 10bit QT clips? Keeping in mind that I would not actually edit with uncompressed but only work with it once the finished clips came back. So it would be just basically the final approval and the color grading in Apple Color, if it makes any difference. Thanks!

[Adam Claude jones]

[Matt Lyon] “So, yes, conforming is a manual process, but a quick one. Inserting shots manually, on a separate track, also lets me A/B the material for the director and/or producer, which is often asked for.”

Well, given that the majority of the project is green screen plates this will be almost like re-trimming the whole project then. What if I just re-connect the media and point FCP to the folder where the finished shots are contained and these shots are exactly the same name as the untouched green screen clips on the timeline? FCP would automatically replace them with all transitions and cuts in the right places etc, no? Or it would not work because of the fact they are the same name but a different format? At least I don’t think FCP would look at that. Just the path and name. But I may be wrong.
So I could for example convert the DPX to ProRes or any QT format for easy editing and name them the same as the DPX source. Then send the DPX to compositing and when FX is finished, output with the same name to a DPX sequence. Then convert the DPX finished shots to uncompressed 10 bit QT and put these finished shots in a folder and re-connect the media in FCP to this folder and have it replace all the unfinished ProRes clips with the finished Uncompressed 10 bit finished clips. Is this a sound workflow here? By having the finished shots output to DPX, in case something needs to be worked on later, VFX could still only re-render the needed frames and a new conversion to uncompressed 10 bit QT of the whole shot or just what is different could be done and have it cut in the FCP timeline to add what’s missing in case it was just a matter of the shot needed to be longer or start earlier. This would avoid a lot of re-rendering etc, which can take a lot of time depending on how complex the VFX shot is. How does that sound? Do you see any holes in this workflow?

Thanks once more for your advice Matt.

[Adam Claude jones]

Thanks again Matt.
So you think offline is the way to go here?
What format do you advice me to convert the DPX to? ProRes?
I’m just a bit nervous because I have never done offline before because this is my first long form project. Specially given DPX sequences don’t really have time code, so how will I go about conforming the shots later, if not manually?

About the final VFX clips being delivered as quicktime files, the only reason would be quality and also practicability. VFX shots are normally rendered as image sequences because if you need to re-render something or add more at the head or tail, it’s just a matter of re-rendering the needed frames. While if you render the finished shots as video clips you would need to re-render the whole clip. It’s just the usual way of doing it in the VFX industry, going with image sequences. The other reason is quality. Converting the DPX to ProRes for example would take a hit in quality.
But when you say to render it to 10 bit uncompressed quicktimes, I think you mean the Apple Animation codec?
Yes, the hard drive speed need is insane for those, but it may be a viable option.

Thanks once more.

[Adam Claude jones]

Hey Thanks for the extensive reply Matt! Truly appreciated.

Yeah, I have heard of GlueTools. But honestly, at $600 it’s not an investment I’m sure I want to make, specially that I’m almost never asked to work with DPX. But I think this is the only option if I want to work with DPX in FCP right?
Besides of course converting it to a QT flavor. But I’m not sure that would be good for the VFX, since DPX is uncompressed. So I’m not sure they would like to receive ProRes for example. Or what would be the best format to convert the DPX to in order to edit in FCP?

The thing is the DPX files were actually converted from Cineform files. So the original files were Cineform. So I could also work with the original Cineform files in FCP, if FCP would accept that. But I heard FCP doesn’t recognize the Cineform files as 10 bit for some reason. Have you worked with Cineform files in FCP?

Then there’s the problem with Color. Even if FCP accepts the Cineform and recognizes it as 10 bit, Apple Color will not. So how do I do to grade it in Color? This is why the DPX may make more sense. But for DPX I will also need a RAID etc and GlueTools.

I could of course try to do some sort of offline workflow. Convert the footage to some QT for editing, send the original to the VFX but when it’s sent back to FCP after FX is done it will come in DPX (or TIFF) and I have the same problem. I need GlueTools and a RAID. Man, I’m on a jam here. 🙁

[Adam Claude jones]

Should I post the question on the FCP Basics forum? I didn’t think it was a basic question but as I’m not getting any replies here.

[Adam Claude jones]

Thanks. Any tips on the DPX workflow issue?

[Adam Claude jones]

Thanks everybody. I got it to work!

[Adam Claude jones]

Hi Bob.
Actually I’m not getting the cable direct from the manufacturer. I’m getting it from a reseller who sells it already with the BNC connectors and cut it to any length you want. He uses Neutrik BNC connectors. He gave me the cable brand and number and I looked it up and found the manufacturer page with the specs. So if the cable looks good spec wise the connectors are taken care of.