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X mismatched Frame Rate projects/ wave bug fix/ Logic Import still broken
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I think you guys are getting your terminology mixed up. AFAIK, there is no “pulldown” as in an automatic speed change (24.0 to 23.98 or 30.0 to 29.97) when you mix frame rates, unless you use the Retime-Automatic Speed function. However, there is “cadence insertion” (also often – and incorrectly – called pulldown). So you have additional added fields when you drop a 24p (23.98) clip into a 30i (29.97) timeline.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
I’m not sure you know what pull down is. It’s a duplication of frames/ fields in a particular pattern to specifically maintain the duration of a clip and smooth out cadence problems when footage of one frame rate is played back at another frame rate. 24p in a 1080i sequence spreads out the duplication of frames over 60 fields quite nicely. But it doesn’t change the playback speed or clip duration. It still takes 1 second to playback the every 24 frames.
I think because your frame rates are so close you think something special is supposed to happen. But suppose you had two identical sets of 1000 frames of video. Ones frame rate is 23.98fps. The other is 500fps. You drop them both in a 23.98 sequence. By your logic you seem to think that they’ll be the same duration. Obviously not. The one will be 2 seconds long. The other would be 41.7 seconds long.
If you conform them that’s a whole different concept than pull down. THAT would play them back at the frame rate of the timeline, making them the same duration.
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[james Lackleter] “Also just to clarify prior post, my point is if I take the same clip in 23.98 project, one at 23.98, and one 24.00 fps, if X is was accurately converting the 24.00 fps in playback to 23.98, then these two clips should have the same length duration.”
Fcpx does OK when using like formats (fractional vs whole, NTSC vs the rest of the world or film).
Once you go between fractional vs whole fcpx doesn’t do as well all of the time.
As mentioned in the other thread, you have to drag the clip back out to length to conform the speed change and also uncheck the pitch change. This seems like a bug to me.
There is a difference in the term pulldown between audio and video. Audio pulldown is more like a video conform. During the process of transferring film/sync audio to video (29.97) adding a 3:2 interlaced pattern to the pulled down video and audio, received the generic term of ‘pulldown’ as everything was being slowed down by .1%. We are all right. Adding interlaced 3:2 cadence to 23.98 video is known as adding pulldown. Changing from a whole frame rate to a fractal frame rate by chaining the speed is also pulldown (or pull-up if you are going the other way).
When recording sync sound for 24.0 film, audio was sampled at 48,048k (with 30fps tc) to later get pulled down (speed changed/resampled) to 48k for fractional frame rate offline (or subsequent delivery). Similarly, audio could get recorded at 47,952k and then pulled back up to 48 (sped up) for 24.0 delivery (this is if you are shooting at a fractional frame rate, later to deliver on film).
Since I don’t know what has happened to your media, it is my guess that you are trying, somewhere, to go from whole to fractional. This will cause problems in FCPX if you don’t do anything about it as I think there’s a bug.
Rendering out of RCX at a different frame rate isn’t going to fix it. You need to sync your audio and video at the rate it was shot (so that one second of video syncs with one second of audio), and then decide the best method to play back at 23.976. That could mean simply playing ti back .1% slower in FCPX, but you have to make sure to add that .1% in the speed change.
Jeremy
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Yes the fractional problem is what I was experiencing. I just rerendered 23.98 proxies for all the 24.00 fps footage. When I XML out to Resolve, I simply change frame rate from 24.00 to 23.98 and Tom’s your uncle.
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23.98 to 24 is a very slight difference in speed, so you won’t notice much slippage on short clips.
After about 2 mins, the sync is only a frame off.
After 120 mins, it’s about a minute off.
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The scene was a 5 minute long take with no cuts, starts as a cu and pulls back to wide. It’s impossible to tell, especially since it moves back to wide. It was just the faulty playback of 24 fps pushing it out of sync.
This also explains why it was playing back fine in MC but not in FCPX.
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Jeremy are you aware of any other bugs. I’ve cut the whole thing in X and I’m so close to being done, don’t want to recut in Avid… I’m just paranoid about finishing in the program. I think it was you who mentioned clicks popping up (pun intended) with faulty faders. Which I’ve just been fixing with the range tool. Everything is seemingly fine now that I’ve brought all the 24 clips down to 23.98 by rerendering proxies. Thanks for that by the way.
I’ve also had issues with certain clips not panning to left and back speakers, it’s not phase issue. Otherwise surround has been working out fine, I did most of the work outside of X and imported the clips. Logic filters for channel EQ and Limiter work great.
Anyway any other bugs you know of?
P.S. Oliver I know you use resolve, I’m sure some of you other guys do. A bug in new version which screwed me. If you move the directory of your R3D files, they will not be able to link back. Even if you put the directory back in it’s original place. Only happens with R3D files.
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[james Lackleter] “Anyway any other bugs you know of?”
This version (10.1.1 and 10.9.1) seems to have some delays in playback, and assumptions seem to lead to some sort of waveform or thumbnail redraw issue.
If you use the audio EQ from the “audio enhancements” section of audio, you can edit it once, but once you try to edit it again, the effect zeros out and you lose your work.
Oliver has reported that non standard audio sample rates cause problems in exports.
I am sure there are more, but those are the big ones for the moment.
Jeremy
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