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Why is the FR2-LE field recorder only 12 volts, when phantom power requires 48 volts?
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[ryan elder] “Oh okay. I ordered the mics from Long & McQuade.”
It’s hard to get good help. Chances are that whomever you spoke to is unfamiliar with the microphone. Alas, those sales-droids talk a good game, as if they know what they are talking about But never trust them without independent confirmation
[ryan elder] “I was told by other filmmakers that I should use a hypercardiod mic when booming indoors, and they said that the 4053b was a good hypercardioid for indoor shooting. Is that true though, or is the distance on it, not far enough? I’ve been using for a few years now and it seems to be working fine, unless I’m wrong?”
That was good advice The AT 4053b hyper-cardioid is well respected and widely used for booming dialog indoors. If you are getting poor recording levels, there could be several problems:
1) The -10dB pad is engaged. We still don’t know if this is a problem with your mic or not
2) You are trying to boom from a distance that is too far for the mic to pick up properly. I would be very uncomfortable booming at more than 50-60 cm (18-24 in) Microphones are not magic and amateurs frequently assume that they have better “reach” than they really do. Booming is not a casual “set and forget” activity. You need a talented boom operator who knows the script and is actively listening with good full-coverage headphones. And NOT “noise-cancelling” headphones or earbuds!
3) You are using a mixer/recorder/camcorder with low-average mic preamp performance. To really get superior gain and low noise, you can’t depend on a plastic pro-sumer gadget.
4) You are trying to record dialog from amateur actors who mumble and don’t know how to project properly.
5) One or more pieces of gear is damaged and not operating at its full potential. ANOTHER reason why you should play around with all your gear to get a feel for how it is supposed to work, so you can compare it to a situation that seems like something is wrong. You REALLY need to get better acquainted with your gear.———————————————————————————
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
Oh okay. Well it’s just that at 2 feet above the actors I have to have the level gain dial turned to 90% about, and the volume dial at 90%, which I thought maybe was quite high, but is that normal?
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[ryan elder] “Oh okay. Well it’s just that at 2 feet above the actors “
That is at the far end of the limits for most hyper-cardioids in dialog use (at least IMHO).
As I mentioned before, you can’t just put up a boom mic like you would put up a light, in a fixed, general position. A microphone is not a “general coverage” gadget. You must keep it as close to the actors as possible without dipping into the frame. And you must keep it aimed at whomever is speaking. And the boom operator should be familiar with the script and using good headphone monitoring to ensure “quality control”.[ryan elder] “I have to have the level gain dial turned to 90% about, and the volume dial at 90%, which I thought maybe was quite high, but is that normal?”
It is probably “normal” for amateur actors, long distances, and average mic preamps. It would certainly NOT be “normal” for big-budget feature film or prime-time television production.
Have you tried using the NTG-3 microphone in those conditions? If the reflective surfaces (ceiling, walls, table-top, floor, etc.) are far enough, you might be able to get away with using a full interference-tube “long shotgun” mic for an interior scene.
Have you resolved the open question about the -10dB pad on your microphone?
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
Oh okay thanks. Yes the 10 db pad seems to be working on the mic.
Unfortunately most locations where I live to do not have high enough ceilings for a shotgun to sound as good as the hypercardioid. I don’t boom from a fixed position though, I move the boom mic from actor to actor as they speak.
If you say that 90% on the gain and volume is not normal for a professional quality movie, what percentage should it be at for professional quality?
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Also, when I boom, I keep reading how you should hit -12 decibels. If I can get it in close I can, but when it comes to mastershots, with a few actors in the shot, it becomes more challenging. Like this scene here, for example, is what I have to do a lot when it comes to mastershots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AApQkNSViGg
How do you get a good recording at -12 db, when you have to boom from further away in a master, if that makes sense?
Also would a different field recorder than the FR2-LE allow for higher pre-amplication, and therefore can record from further distances, at even less than 90% gain and volume, or no?
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[ryan elder] “Also, when I boom, I keep reading how you should hit -12 decibels. “
There is no single target peak value. It depends VERY VERY MUCH on what you are recording and how. The general concept is that you should record at as high a level as possible SAFELY without clipping. The reason being that you can get the maximum Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR) before clipping. This is the case with ANY source and ANY recording method. It has nothing to with booming or any other technique of sound pickup.
[ryan elder] “If I can get it in close I can, but when it comes to mastershots, with a few actors in the shot, it becomes more challenging. Like this scene here, for example, is what I have to do a lot when it comes to mastershots:”
That is not a very good example. In the long shot, the dialog is VERY reverberant. Perhaps as “wet” as I have ever heard in any feature film. That room is big enough that they probably used a long shotgun (because of the framing). But they were operating at such an unusually long distance, the dialog pickup is among the worst I have ever heard in any feature film. Note carefully that when they finally did a medium-close-up of Kirk Douglas, the sound became MUCH more distinct because they were using the microphone at a much closer distance. Perhaps they meant for the poor-quality dialog track to convey the feeling of our presence in the very large, reverberant room.
[ryan elder] “Also would a different field recorder than the FR2-LE allow for higher pre-amplication, and therefore can record from further distances, at even less than 90% gain and volume, or no?”
Most certainly. The mic preamps in the FR2-LE are by far the weakest link in your audio chain. You can be sure that feature-film and prime-time TV productions are not using such little plastic consumer gadgets. They are using mixers and recorders from Sound Devices, and more recently the Zoom F8 and F4 are making their way as a couple of steps up from the FR2-LE
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
That was a very old film from back when they had very poor equipment and techniques compared to what we have today.
Remember that in the recent era, wireless body mics are frequently used for good dialog pickup when shooting long/master shots. And dialog replacement is much more common now that there is modestly-priced software available to conform the match of the ADR to the original recorded tracks.
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
Okay thanks. I usually don’t like going over -12, cause if I do, an actor can clip too easily if they get loud. But maybe I should learn to watch for that and record at higher decibles, than -12 :).
As for the sound being wet in the mastershot, I noticed it is less wet in the close up. This happens in other movies as well, but here it is more obvious cause the mastershot is pretty wet. However, is that bad? Doesn’t the mastershot being more wet than usual, give the feeling if distance, like you are actually in a big courtroom?
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That particular film, and that particular scene are the most “wet” I remember every hearing in any film I have ever seen. At least in any scene where it seems clear that the dialog is actually important to the plot and the audience is meant to understand it.
If that film/scene were shot today, you an be sure that the sound would be MUCH more distinct. And whatever “ambient reverberation” would be mostly artificially generated and added in the post-production mixdown. IMHO it is VERY RISKY to record that kind of extreme reverberation directly on to the dialog track. I would never do such a thing.
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
Okay thanks. I just find myself with the same dilemma is that in real locations, the mastershot is going to be wet compared to the shots where you can get the mic closer. What if the director wants to use a lot of the mastershot, cause it shows a lot of the actors blocking, compared to closer shots, what then? Is it possible to get rid of really wet dialogue on a real location as oppose to a specifically built sound stage?
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