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Why does Panic and Paranoia Rule some “Pros”?
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Chris –
I had resolved not to respond to your posts because it is pretty pointless, however I have to try this one last time.
You are obviously very knowledgeable and very helpful when you clear up misunderstandings about what FCPX can actually do, as opposed to the basic freak out that occurs when users try a new program.
However your offensive patronizing insistence that all the experienced editors on this board are behaving like children is so completely off base that I can’t reconcile it with the rest of your posts.
most of the panic has not been about what Apple has doneYou couldn’t be more wrong. WE ARE ANGRY AT WHAT APPLE HAS DONE. They’ve killed FCP7 with no notice and with no replacement. FCPX is not yet a replacement. It is easier for a FCP7 editor to migrate to Premiere Pro than it is to migrate to FCPX and that is the way Apple wants it. That is a fact. They have no interest in any migration path for FCP7 users. If they did they would have built one. The fact that this doesn’t seem important to you is simply proof of your youth and inexperience.
people have convinced themselves that Apple no longer cares about high-end users,
We didn’t convince ourselves, Apple has convinced us.
and will not deliver software suitable for them in the future.
I have no idea what type of software Apple will produce in the future. The point is I no longer care.
to quote Simon Ubsdell:
“Contrari-wise we look at Apple (now) and we see a business that only happens by chance to be traveling the same path as we are. Somehow we have chosen to ignore this for a number of years – suddenly the truth of it is inescapable. We have everything to lose, they have virtually nothing. Whether or not they are committed to carrying on along the same path as us, we have been made aware of how precarious the relationship is on our side. We have been very lucky so far, but now we realize that it was indeed luck all along.”
I am not angry about FCPX. Until they come up with a serious multi-cam function it’s simply useless to me. I am very angry at the way Apple has treated me and my business. And I will infer from their actions a corporate direction that is no longer compatible with mine. As do many others. It’s a reasonable inference. Either that or I have to figure the folks at Apple are a bunch incompetent boobs when it comes to marketing their products. It’s one or the other.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions -
Couldn’t resist. They’re just so cute in those little cheerleading outfits.
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Yes, I’m sure several features will be cut on FCPX, someone also cut a feature on Imovie. I haven’t freaked out on these boards but I’m absolutely frustrated with Apple and the product they released. It’s not just missing only 3 “critical features”. You can talk about revolutionizing post-prod all you want, but editors change their way of working as much, if not more, by the people they are working with. Sitting in a room with directors/producers who have been in the business for 30+ years are very much dictating how we are picking through footage.
After playing around on a test project for 2 weeks what stands out to me is a lack of preciseness. When I’m moving through dailies, I want to move quickly. As far as I’m concerned, all the bells and whistles of background rendering, 64bit, etc are coming to every system. But if it lacks a precision, I want nothing to do with it. I started on M100, learned FCP and Avid at about the same time, also jumped on to Premiere for a little. The argument that I’m just not used to it yet, it’s that revolutionary, is asinine.
I use both Avid and FCP regularly and I’ve gone to bat on several feature films to use FCP (and taken plenty of heat for it). Working in LA, I don’t see any place for FCPX. Right or wrong stigma is everything. Apple took a huge misstep in releasing this app too early. Things like the Conan Obrien skit circulate on Facebook, producers/directors see it, all of a sudden any mention of it is a joke. To top it off Apple alienates people like me who have long been FCP advocates.
All that said, I know LA isn’t the center of the universe, and I’m sure FCP X does have it’s place.
Christian
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Personally, I think Chris is angling for a date with the Jobs fellow. Either that, or do Apple now do their own version of the Blue Peter badge?
The only good thing for me about FCPX is that the FCPX forums are a good read and the post launch comment threads kept me smiling throughout a rather muddy Glastonbury.
The youthful cheerleaders, naive and excited, drooling over the potential of this brave new iWorld versus those who actually seem to know what they are talking about in real life application of editing software and are now jumping the iShip.
Sure, iMovie Pro looks great for iMovie fans. FCP is dead. And no, I don’t want the way I edit reinvented, all I wanted was a 64 bit editing programme.
Hello Adobe.
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[Herb Sevush] “However your offensive patronizing insistence that all the experienced editors on this board are behaving like children is so completely off base that I can’t reconcile it with the rest of your posts.”
I haven’t actually accused anyone of behaving like a child. I do believe that some people are being extremely shortsighted. So shortsighted that the ‘case against FCP X’ has already had to evolve considerably over the last couple of weeks, as new information has come out. A couple of weeks ago, for instance, the narrative was basically “FCP X will never be a pro app, the new interface and the features Apple left out of the first release prove Apple is abandoning this market”. Now that people have had more time with the new interface, and information has come out about feature gaps Apple is planning to fill, the narrative has changed into something more like “Apple can’t be trusted, and I think it’s going to take them two years to turn FCP X into a pro app”.
Somehow this transition happened seamlessly, without the folks arguing against FCP X really admitting they’d been wrong about anything. This has happened before in this debate. Two years ago, the “Apple doesn’t care about pros” crowd was using the lack of an FCP rewrite as its primary evidence in favor of that position… yet someone, when it was confirmed Apple was rewriting FCP, their position never got reconsidered.
[Herb Sevush] “It is easier for a FCP7 editor to migrate to Premiere Pro than it is to migrate to FCPX and that is the way Apple wants it. That is a fact. They have no interest in any migration path for FCP7 users. If they did they would have built one. The fact that this doesn’t seem important to you is simply proof of your youth and inexperience.”
If you look at the technical issues involved with moving projects over, it’s clear that while it could be done, it couldn’t be done well. It’s understandable (particularly in light of Apple’s corporate culture) that Apple would rather ship no implementation of this feature than a bad one. I believe Apple fully intends for existing users to move over by simply continuing to work on FCP 7 projects in FCP 7 during a transitional period. The extent to which this is not a viable option has been overstated by many. It’s true that some shops may need to regularly reuse sequences or portions of sequences from projects years old, but most do not.
[Herb Sevush] “The fact that this doesn’t seem important to you is simply proof of your youth and inexperience.”
Kind of hilarious in a post that you start off by chiding me not to be patronizing.
[Herb Sevush] “”Contrari-wise we look at Apple (now) and we see a business that only happens by chance to be traveling the same path as we are. Somehow we have chosen to ignore this for a number of years – suddenly the truth of it is inescapable. We have everything to lose, they have virtually nothing.”
Avid is focussed heavily on our market, and can barely pay the bills, because that market isn’t all that big. They also have the oldest UI and oldest architecture of the three major NLEs. (Why does oldest UI matter, if you know it and like it? Because it impacts uptake by new editors, which in the long run is what determines platform strength.)
Adobe has little more financial reliance on Premiere than Apple has on FCP, and did their own disruptive major rewrite of it back in 2003.
It is really not especially obvious that either of these vendors is less risky than Apple long-term.
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So true, especially the 7/X incompatibility. Initially Apple stated that the incompatibility was due the the “new advanced architecture” used by FCP”ex”, making it sound like it was a 64 bit architecture issue. Well, AVID and Adobe seemed to make that leap just fine. As Apple has made clarifying statements, it now seems to be due to their insistence on denying that “tracks” can or should exist.
Bottom line – I had an FCP wishlist that included native MXF support, 64 bit processing, updates or integration of DVD Studio Pro and Color functionality; not hard stuff. Instead, we get a bastard product that I’d compare to a radical new car design – sexy body if you can find the doors, 1000 hp engine governed to 90 hp and only one wheel (but third-party vendors will sell you new wheel mounts at an unspecified later date…)
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I think panic and paranoia are the incorrect terms. Pissed off, disillusioned, and frustrated are correct.
I don’t want to spend $500 for an OMF plug in just so I can export audio to my Pro Tools guy. I don’t want to have to purchase decent DVD or Blu-ray authoring software just because Apple decided to discontinue studio software and support of physical media
Final Cut Pro 7 does not suite my needs as I’m not transcoding 1TB of DSLR footage to Pro Res thank you. Nor do I want it to ‘render in the background’ and saving god knows where.
I’m editing a feature I shot in May and neither FCP 7 nor FCP X are up to the task. So I have to switch and I’m pissed off about it. 🙂
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If a feature means a long form piece, yeah someone will do it.
A feature means originating on film (still predominant) and finishing sound elsewhere, and conforming a DI or cutting a negative, is some future unknown time.
Film Logic worked with FCP1 because it took an EDL, and FCP gave an EDL. Sound worked because tracks were assignable and could be exported to ProTools.
Sure, this could happen some day. I just wouldn’t plan on it for at least a year.
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As an outsider (I’ve only ever owned an iMac a long time ago), but one who uses FCP on other peoples macs all the time (I prefer Premiere on a PC) my observation about the release of FCPX and why it is so hurtful boils down to a very simple thing. Apple lied about about what was coming down the pipe. They encouraged pro users to believe that FCPX would be an upgrade to FCP7. Had they been honest about FCPX, the conversations about switching would have started happening a year or more ago. FCP7 users love their program and they thought they were getting the 64-bit upgrade every other NLE has gotten – and then they would still have the ultimate editing platform. Instead, they all waited, feeling the pain of not being 64-bit, but believing that when FCP8 came out, it would be worth the wait – the most awesome upgrade to the most awesome NLE ever. Instead, they have been betrayed. So they are rightfully angry. And now they are being told to wait some more? That FCPX will get fixed.? I can understand why editors aren’t buying that line now.
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Two years ago, the “Apple doesn’t care about pros” crowd was using the lack of an FCP rewrite as its primary evidence in favor of that position… yet someone, when it was confirmed Apple was rewriting FCP, their position never got reconsidered.
No, it turns out they were totally correct. Apple didn’t re-write FCP, they created, as you have rightly been calling it, an entirely new ap and stuck FCP’s name on it. I am still awaiting the FCP re-write – it’s just that it will probably be written by Adobe.
If you look at the technical issues involved with moving projects over, it’s clear that while it could be done, it couldn’t be done well.
Of course, as even you have agreed on previous posts, this was totally within Apple’s control. If they wanted to create an Ap that was upgradeable they would have. This is proof of their re-targeting. They knew this was important to their facilities base but they didn’t care enough to incorporate it into their new design.
I believe Apple fully intends for existing users to move over by simply continuing to work on FCP 7 projects in FCP 7 during a transitional period.
Then why did they EOL FCP7? How does that make it easier to continue working along side FCPX. This is the part you really REFUSE to look at.
I’ve seen elsewhere your repeating the nonsense about running FCP7 on Lion. There has never been a single operating system upgrade from Apple that didn’t result in multiple bugs and editing problems over time; they all had to be addressed by a dot point upgrade, but now with Lion everything is going to be perfect right off the bat? BS. Personally I am no longer doing ANY upgrades for ANY Apple software on my primary editing system for fear of crashes.
It’s true that some shops may need to regularly reuse sequences or portions of sequences from projects years old, but most do not.
But I do.
“The fact that this doesn’t seem important to you is simply proof of your youth and inexperience.”
Kind of hilarious in a post that you start off by chiding me not to be patronizing.It was intentional Chris, it’s called humor, based on giving you what you’ve been giving to others, glad you got the joke.
It is really not especially obvious that either of these vendors is less risky than Apple long-term.
I don’t trust Adobe precisely because Premier is not their main Ap, it’s the poor stepchild to AE and Photoshop, even in the Creative Suite. And Avid is the most vulnerable financially. Do you think I’d be this pissed off if I had a good option. If their was a good place to go, I’d already be gone.
I’ve edited with PP and while it’s OK it has some severe limitations for the way I work. I’ve never been a fan of Avid, editing on it feels liking f**king with a rubber. As for FCPX, when and if it get’s upgraded enough to mesh with my workflow I’ll evaluate it. So I can happily look forward to having to make a choice between the 3 little pigs in about a year. Thank you Apple.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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